Cambodia, Vietnam etc success stories

Scarlet Pimpernel · 6 Aug 2020

Vinty said:
In the 3rd world children are an economic asset to their families, what is your problem with that.

Good morning, Vinty. I hope you are well.

Let me tell you a little about Iran, because you appear to have little knowledge or experience of it.
Prior to the Iranian Islamic Revolution of 1979, affluent (of which there were a lot) Iranians would send their children to be educated in western universities. Indeed, Iran was the largest contributor to foreign students to US, and I dare say also to UK during the 1970's
During that time I met many Iranian students, who were affluent, well educated, sociable and generous. That was my first taste of pistachios, a gift of a large tin of pistachios from an Iranian student. They spoke excellent English before arriving in UK.
Iran, at that time was considered a developing nation. It was and has been the Islamic Revolution, and the subsequent sanctions, that has severely limited that development. I daresay, that if it were not for those sanctions, and the restriction of civil liberties, Iran would now be considered a developed nation.

Now to come to your ill-informed and prejudiced assumption that Iranians consider their children to be economic assets.
I have just explained Iranian's view of their children as far as their education is concerned.

Now, if I lose an economic asset, say my shares dip, or my car breaks down irreparable, I think, Oh bother!, I'm gonna have to find a replacement, or get a new one.
But when I see parents, having lost a child through sickness, accident, crime or so called 'collateral damage' I don't see anyone with a look of resignation, thinking they're going to have to find a replacement. I see a parent in total anguish and grief, someone who is going to experience a sense of empty space, almost a pain, for that child for the rest of their lives.

You might think that Iranians consider their children as economic assets, working out in the fields, but I would suggest that you have an ill-informed and prejudiced view.

Coupled with your suspicions that the figures that recently emerged, about the deaths from Covid, were inaccurate despite the knowledge that they closely coincided with calculated figures of mortality rates, I suggest that you take some time for self-reflection on your prejudiced assumptions.

sodthisforfun · 6 Aug 2020

sodthisforfun · 6 Aug 2020

Bobby Dazzler said:
Good morning, Vinty. I hope you are well.

Let me tell you a little about Iran, because you appear to have little knowledge or experience of it.
Prior to the Iranian Islamic Revolution of 1979, affluent (of which there were a lot) Iranians would send their children to be educated in western universities. Indeed, Iran was the largest contributor to foreign students to US, and I dare say also to UK during the 1970's
During that time I met many Iranian students, who were affluent, well educated, sociable and generous. That was my first taste of pistachios, a gift of a large tin of pistachios from an Iranian student. They spoke excellent English before arriving in UK.
Iran, at that time was considered a developing nation. It was and has been the Islamic Revolution, and the subsequent sanctions, that has severely limited that development. I daresay, that if it were not for those sanctions, and the restriction of civil liberties, Iran would now be considered a developed nation.

Now to come to your ill-informed and prejudiced assumption that Iranians consider their children to be economic assets.
I have just explained Iranian's view of their children as far as their education is concerned.

Now, if I lose an economic asset, say my shares dip, or my car breaks down irreparable, I think, Oh bother!, I'm gonna have to find a replacement, or get a new one.
But when I see parents, having lost a child through sickness, accident, crime or so called 'collateral damage' I don't see anyone with a look of resignation, thinking they're going to have to find a replacement. I see a parent in total anguish and grief, someone who is going to experience a sense of empty space, almost a pain, for that child for the rest of their lives.

You might think that Iranians consider their children as economic assets, working out in the fields, but I would suggest that you have an ill-informed and prejudiced view.

Coupled with your suspicions that the figures that recently emerged, about the deaths from Covid, were inaccurate despite the knowledge that they closely coincided with calculated figures of mortality rates, I suggest that you take some time for self-reflection on your prejudiced assumptions.

Just read this:
https://borgenproject.org/10-facts-about-child-labor-in-iran/
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/news/child-labour-in-iran-on-the-rise/

You cannot compare pre-revolution/war children with the children in Iran today, you are ill-informed and basing your views on some kids you met 40 odd years ago.

Things were very different under the more western views of Pahlavi, for both women and children. The children you met in the UK who were from rich enough families to send them to the UK were from a very different era/circumstance.

Vinty is not ill-informed and prejudice. Children in some families can be vital for survival, inevitable after so many years of war. Same is happening with Lebanon, war & poverty forces child labour.

Nowhere does Vinty say that the parents attitudes towards their children are 'going to find a replacement', covid or any of that tangent nonsense you've gone on. He doesn't say half of the things you've replied to him about. Not helpful Himmy.

Scarlet Pimpernel · 6 Aug 2020

sodthisforfun said:
You cannot compare pre-revolution/war children with the children in Iran today

You absolutely can compare parents attitudes towards their children in the pre-revolution era with the parents attitude today.
Note the subtle difference in what you are trying to compare which is in direct contrast with what I am comparing, which is parents's attitudes towards their children. That is at the crux of this discussion.

sodthisforfun said:
Nowhere does Vinty say that the parents attitudes towards their children are 'going to find a replacement' ...

I'm afraid you've created a strawman argument. No-one claimed that Vinty said that parents would find a replacement. That was my comment on peoples' attitude towards economic assets. You've transposed it onto something that I claimed Vinty had said. A clear Strawman argument.

Vinty clearly said, "In these foreign countries, children are an economic asset, they have them working out in the fields.."

Children are necessary in all countries. Of course they are, no-one doubts that. We've recently seen a concern that birth rates are falling and it creates a potential problem in the future. But that doesn't mean that anyone treats them as 'economic assets, to work in the fields'.
If someone considers that foreign countries treat their children as economic assets, they need to re-appraise their assumption.

Coupled with Vinty's misplaced suspicion about the newly emerged data on deaths, I believe it clearly illustrates that Vinty has a prejudiced approach to his assumptions.

sodthisforfun · 6 Aug 2020

Bobby Dazzler said:
You absolutely can compare parents attitudes towards their children in the pre-revolution era with the parents attitude today.
Note the subtle difference in what you are trying to compare which is in direct contrast with what I am comparing, which is parents's attitudes towards their children. That is at the crux of this discussion.

I'm afraid you've created a strawman argument. No-one claimed that Vinty said that parents would find a replacement. That was my comment on peoples' attitude towards economic assets. You've transposed it onto something that I claimed Vinty had said. A clear Strawman argument.

Vinty clearly said, "In these foreign countries, children are an economic asset, they have them working out in the fields.."

View attachment 201169
Children are necessary in all countries. Of course they are, no-one doubts that. We've recently seen a concern that birth rates are falling and it creates a potential problem in the future. But that doesn't mean that anyone treats them as 'economic assets, to work in the fields'.
If someone considers that foreign countries treat their children as economic assets, they need to re-appraise their assumption.

Coupled with Vinty's misplaced suspicion about the newly emerged data on deaths, I believe it clearly illustrates that Vinty has a prejudiced approach to his assumptions.

I knew you'd avoid all the info I gave you via the links.
You cannot ever ever admit fault, it's actually amusing. You wonder why people don't like conversing with you!!

Strawman, ha ha, you're the master at strawman - again you cannot see your hypocrisy.

The crux of the matter is children in Iran work when their families are in poverty. This you deny while going off on a tangent. It's rising in Iran, sadly. One of the links says that on occasion, children are sold.

Vinty also said that Iran have large families, you were wrong there to say they didn't. Vinty said that the disease spreads in large families, you denied that. As far as I am concerned, with all the proof I have given you, Vinty has not been incorrect. You don't address any of that, all you want to do is call Vinty prejudice while grasping at straws. What a classy human you are - not.

Here's a snippet for you, stick that in your pipe and smoke it:

"Since 2000, the world’s child labour rate has dropped by a third, but there are still many countries where child labour is a serious problem.

One of these countries is Iran, where poverty imposed by 40 years of the Regime’s corruption mean that many parents are sending children out to work before they turn five in order to keep the family afloat. Some even sell their children. As you might expect, this horrific situation subjects the children to years of abuse and violence.

Tahereh Pazhuhesh, Vice-President of the Association for the Protection of Children’s Rights, said: “Despite the global reduction in the child labour statistics, we see child labour surge in Iran.”

The global rate of child labour has decreased, but in Iran its rising. It is common to see children in sweatshops, markets, farms, factories, or even on the sides of roads cleaning windscreens. Most of them have been forced to drop out of school".

But hey, I daresay to some Iranians, with years of poverty and war that yes, their attitudes have changed in 40 years (desperation can do that you know) and yes, children can be an economic benefit. Let's ignore the truth because you once met some wealthy Iranian students 40 years ago who gave you some nuts...

Scarlet Pimpernel · 6 Aug 2020

sodthisforfun said:
I knew you'd avoid all the info I gave you via the links.

Oh dear, because I didn't directly address your links, you assumed I had avoided them.

sodthisforfun said:
You cannot ever ever admit fault, it's actually amusing. You wonder why people don't like conversing with you!! Strawman, ha ha, you're the master at strawman - again you cannot see your hypocrisy.

Resorting to insults and abuse again demonstrates the futility of your argument.

sodthisforfun said:
The crux of the matter is children in Iran work when their families are in poverty. This you deny while going off on a tangent. It's rising in Iran, sadly. One of the links says that on occasion, children are sold.

Strawman argument yet again, I have not denied it and would agree wholeheartedly that poverty causes child exploitation.

sodthisforfun said:
also said that Iran have large families, you were wrong there to say they didn't.

Yet another Strawman argument. I said no such thing.

sodthisforfun said:
Vinty said that the disease spreads in large families, you denied that.

Yet another Styrawman argument. You're full of them today!

As far as I am concerned, with all the proof I have given you, [/quote]
Strawman arguments are absolutely not proof of anything.

sodthisforfun said:
has not been incorrect.

In your opinion only. In my opinion his assumptions are wrong and based on prejudice and ignorance.

sodthisforfun said:
You don't address any of that,

Of course I don't address Strawman arguments. Why would I?

sodthisforfun said:
What a classy human you are - not.

Yet more insults.

sodthisforfun said:
Here's a snippet for you, stick that in your pipe and smoke it:

"Since 2000, the world’s child labour rate has dropped by a third, but there are still many countries where child labour is a serious problem.

One of these countries is Iran, where poverty imposed by 40 years of the Regime’s corruption mean that many parents are sending children out to work before they turn five in order to keep the family afloat. Some even sell their children. As you might expect, this horrific situation subjects the children to years of abuse and violence.

Tahereh Pazhuhesh, Vice-President of the Association for the Protection of Children’s Rights, said: “Despite the global reduction in the child labour statistics, we see child labour surge in Iran.”

The global rate of child labour has decreased, but in Iran its rising. It is common to see children in sweatshops, markets, farms, factories, or even on the sides of roads cleaning windscreens. Most of them have been forced to drop out of school".

None of that confirms Vinty's assumption that Iranian parents consider their children as economic assets to work in the fields.

sodthisforfun said:
children can be an economic benefit.

There is a real and fundamental difference between seeing children as a benefit compared to considering them as an asset to work in the fields.

sodthisforfun · 6 Aug 2020

Bobby Dazzler said:
Oh dear, because I didn't directly address your links, you assumed I had avoided them.

Resorting to insults and abuse again demonstrates the futility of your argument.

Strawman argument yet again, I have not denied it and would agree wholeheartedly that poverty causes child exploitation.

Yet another Strawman argument. I said no such thing.

Yet another Styrawman argument. You're full of them today!

As far as I am concerned, with all the proof I have given you,

Strawman arguments are absolutely not proof of anything.

In your opinion only. In moy opinuion his assumptions are wrong and based on prejudice and ignorance.

Of course I don't address Strawman arguments. Why would I?

Yet more insults.

None of that confirms Vinty's assumption that Iranian parents consider their children as economic assets to work in the fields.

There is a real and fundamental difference between seeing children as a benefit compared to considering them as an asset to work in the fields.[/QUOTE]
You've no idea. None whatsoever.

You base everything on your one experience of meeting wealthy Iranian students, and use that to judge Vinty.

Did you know that child labour in Iran was LEGAL when you met your wealthy students? In fact, it was legal until the 90's. Did you know that there was a lot of poverty in Iran when you met you wealthy nut-giving students? Iran has a long long history of high poverty and child labour and it's increasing now. Everything you base your opinion on is through rose-tinted glasses from one lovely experience and without fact or real Iran. Bit like how you compared Iran with Singapore etc and their infection rate/death tally, lol.. apples and pears. You don't look at the bigger picture, nope, again, all you're interested in is accusing Vinty of prejudice about Iran. Yep, that's your opinion and all you're doing is hammering home that you want to lord it over others, irrelevant if you have knowledge behind you to do so.

He wasn't prejudice. He wasn't incorrect, you are. That is a fact. Silly silly man you are.

Scarlet Pimpernel · 6 Aug 2020

sodthisforfun said:
You've no idea. None whatsoever.

You base everything on your one experience of meeting wealthy Iranian students, and use that to judge Vinty.

Did you know that child labour in Iran was LEGAL when you met your wealthy students? In fact, it was legal until the 90's. Did you know that there was a lot of poverty in Iran when you met you wealthy nut-giving students? Iran has a long long history of high poverty and child labour and it's increasing now. Everything you base your opinion on is through rose-tinted glasses from one lovely experience and without fact or real Iran. Bit like how you compared Iran with Singapore etc and their infection rate/death tally, lol.. apples and pears. You don't look at the bigger picture, nope, again, all you're interested in is accusing Vinty of prejudice about Iran. Yep, that's your opinion and all you're doing is hammering home that you want to lord it over others, irrelevant if you have knowledge behind you to do so.

He wasn't prejudice. He wasn't incorrect, you are. That is a fact. Silly silly man you are.

As you've descended into your habitual behaviour of being insulting, abusive,and now multiple Strawman arguments, there's obviously no point in trying to have a reasonable and intelligent discussion with you. You'll argue against anything I say with nothing but insults and Strawman arguments.

sodthisforfun · 6 Aug 2020

Bobby Dazzler said:
As you've descended into your habitual behaviour of being insulting, abusive,and now multiple Strawman arguments, there's obviously no point in trying to have a reasonable and intelligent discussion with you. You'll argue against anything I say with nothing but insults and Strawman arguments.

And again, he uses the 'abuse' to not address the fact that he's been wrong at every single turn

Vinty · 8 Aug 2020

Cambodia, Vietnam etc success stories

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sodthisforfun

sodthisforfun

Scarlet Pimpernel

sodthisforfun

Scarlet Pimpernel

sodthisforfun

Scarlet Pimpernel

sodthisforfun

Vinty

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