Window Fitters Vs Bay Window Barrel - Urghhh

lozinger99 · 9 Aug 2020

Morning all,

Having UPVC windows fitted this week. Which is more stressful than I'd hoped.

On the unpredictable times they have turned up, it's all felt a little slapdash. Luckily I'm paying on completion... I'll spare you the little snags but... oh boy - the upper bay window...

I have a theory as to why this has happened. Please see pics. There was a very small crack before but it has just got huge on both sides.

But what would you say re the cause. And should I be worried. Well I'm worried obviously, I'm just trust to gauge how worried

And im guessing it may well keep shifiting.

And should they be putting it right?

Any advice/thoughts gratefully received.

johnny2007 · 9 Aug 2020

OMG!
Do they have beef rib eye?

Notch7 · 9 Aug 2020

An outside pic would be helpful.

If you already had a crack, that might've gone all the way through the block work and the rip out might've disturbed it.

It's hard to know if they are at fault, if the masonry was already unattatched it's not surprising it moved.

Is that Single skin below the bay?

lozinger99 · 9 Aug 2020

Hi there - not sure is it single skin but yes a big crack on outside too both sides. Will try and upload a pic.

Just concerned they didn't prop below sufficiently.

Harry Bloomfield · 9 Aug 2020

lozinger99 said:
But what would you say re the cause. And should I be worried. Well I'm worried obviously, I'm just trust to gauge how worried And im guessing it may well keep shifiting.

And should they be putting it right?

Any advice/thoughts gratefully received.

OMG! It looks as if it wasn't supported at all as the frame below it was removed. I don't know that much about UPVC frames, but seem to recall reading somewhere that they often have to be special structural frames where the original frame took the weight of the structure above.

I would expect some minor cracks from shrinkage over many years, but that is major and needs to be expertly addressed quickly with proper support and repair. Any reputable window company should be aware of what will be needed, though it seems not the company you employed.

When you talk to them, if you haven't already - don't mention that you had minor cracks there being they began work, it is not really relevant to your present situation.

HERTS P&D · 9 Aug 2020

Harry Bloomfield said:
When you talk to them, if you haven't already - don't mention that you had minor cracks there being they began work, it is not really relevant to your present situation.

The trouble by doing that is if they pull out a picture of the bay before they started work, then you would have a fight on your hands blaming them. I always take pictures before and afterwards, and I can tell you it has saved me many times when customers try and pull a fast one.

I had one customer who claimed I ruined his drive when I lift up his manhole cover and disturb his block paying, he was ranting for a good 10 minutes until I showed him a picture I took before I started work. He just walked away and went inside without saying a word.

Andy

Diver Fred · 9 Aug 2020

You need to look at the original order to see if there was comment made about the bay window. Hopefully they made the window for the lower bay to support the upper bay brickwork. They should also have supported the bay before they removed the lower bay window (Props between floor and ceiling inside the lower bay).

I expect the lower bay needs to be remade with the strength to support the brickwork above. The Upper bay made need to be removed and rebuilt properly.

Hope the window are prepared to put it right at their cost.

Harry Bloomfield · 9 Aug 2020

HERTS P&D said:
The trouble by doing that is if they pull out a picture of the bay before they started work, then you would have a fight on your hands blaming them. I always take pictures before and afterwards, and I can tell you it has saved me many times when customers try and pull a fast one.

I wasn't suggesting denying there were cracks already, simply not deliberately mentioning them as they are not relevant.

lozinger99 · 9 Aug 2020

Thanks very much all. Well it was minor crack for sure, and again i don't have an issue with a bit of a crack or fixing up some plaster- its just that that has gone form small crack on one side to massive cracks opening up on both.

I feel like they went at it like a bull at a gate with the drill and the day the lower bay was fitted, it was only one fitter on site, the other guy didn't turn up that day, and he used one acrow prop and now I'm thinking that it needed to be better propped at this point before the bottom bay was removed.

I've had look at the Ts and Cs and they pretty much say it is up to the customer to make sure all is sound, but surely they must ensure the upper bay is propped properly. There no ref to it on the paperwork and the guy who measured up didnt mention it.

I'll add another pic here of the upper back bedroom window - again, this to me seems like just careless drill work and then bung in some expanding foam, but again I'm prepared to be wrong.

I mean I'm a slow and steady DIYer and pretty meticulous about the finish jobs, so i expect a tradesman to be less slapdash then this... ?

Harry Bloomfield · 9 Aug 2020

lozinger99 said:
I'll add another pic here of the upper back bedroom window - again, this to me seems like just careless drill work and then bung in some expanding foam, but again I'm prepared to be wrong.

I mean I'm a slow and steady DIYer and pretty meticulous about the finish jobs, so i expect a tradesman to be less slapdash then this... ?

It might be careless, but it looks as if it has been abandoned unfinished - in the photo to the left of the frame, between frame and wall, it looks as if they have squirted expanding foam in and just left it at that. It needs to be finished off with proper frame sealant. Likewise the wall surface they have wrecked, then stuck back in place with the foam. If they are window fitters, then I'm a Chinaman. They were clueless, please do not pay them until the job is properly finished and approved by someone suitably qualified to judge it finished.

Did you happen to find them on a Trusted Trader type website?

jacko555 · 9 Aug 2020

Are they going to provide fensa certificates for the install?
If not, you'll need building control signoff for the new windows.

lozinger99 · 9 Aug 2020

Hey all, thanks. Yeah to me it's look shocking. That can even be out down to movement. They've just blown the bricks out. They're not finished as yet. Back tomorrow. A manager is coming out to inspect the bay etc.

They're a pretty big company in the city and were recommended. They did an install across the road and it went well. So I'm v surprised/gutted at this... luckily not parted with any money thus far.

Harry Bloomfield · 9 Aug 2020

lozinger99 said:
They're a pretty big company in the city and were recommended. They did an install across the road and it went well. So I'm v surprised/gutted at this... luckily not parted with any money thus far.

Thanks and don't part with any money until it has been properly sorted to your entire satisfaction. The big companies seem to often employ smaller companies to do the work, rather than their own employees - basically sub-contract it. Subbies can be variable in skill and ability.

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Window Fitters Vs Bay Window Barrel - Urghhh

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