Reliable C H Boilers

Nitell · 17 Aug 2020

Hello guys

I have had a Potterton Neataheat for decades, still going.

Boilers are now more efficient so I am looking to replace.

Subject to the manufacturer's description of their efficiency and warranty, I am looking at the Ideal Logic Max 24 (ErP) with a 10 year guarantee. I do not fancy the Worcester.

I welcome any advice anyone can offer.

Thank you.

bernardgreen · 17 Aug 2020

Nitell said:
Boilers are now more efficient so I am looking to replace.

An efficient boiler requires a system that allows it to operate efficiently.

Nitell said:
Subject to the manufacturer's description of their efficiency and warranty,

These descriptions are based on their boiler being operated in an ideal system.

Condensing boilers can only condense efficiently ( if at all ) when the water returning from the radiators is cool enough.

Viessman technical said:
Why is dew point important in boilers?
With regards to boilers, dew point is important as it allows the heat exchanger to work at its most efficient; the condensing of the water vapour releases additional energy into the heating system. The dew point of the byproducts created when burning natural gas is around 55 ℃. Therefore, in order for the boiler to work as efficiently as possible in condensing mode, the surface of the heat exchanger should not exceed this temperature. This is because this is the temperature at which water droplets could form.

To prevent the temperature of the heat exchanger rising above 55 ℃, the temperature of the water needs to be lower than this so that your boiler can work at up to 98 per cent efficiency.

vulcancontinental · 17 Aug 2020

Your boiler is/was top quality and free at the moment, you only pay for fuel.

Putting in a high efficiency boiler can cost over a couple of thousand done properly.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect you will save circa 10-14% on your fuel bill.

The average fuel bill in the UK is hard to estimate but around £800, if so you'll save up to £120 per annum

For the motivation of fuel efficiency only you'd have a 16 year payback. There would also be a not insignificant reduction in emissions. You'd have the boiler manufacturer's warranty as an additional reassurance but to keep that valid a compulsory service every year. Other components replaced will be generally one year.

By far the single most important thing is the quality of the install. I work for a boiler manufacturer so do not think it necessary bias my answer.

Jackrae · 17 Aug 2020

An old reliable but possibly inefficient boiler may well cost less to run than a modern (perhaps not so reliable) 'efficient' one, once you take capital costs into account. Using some rough numbers :
Say for example your new boiler costs you £1500 inclusive of installation and cuts your gas usage by 20%.
If your existing gas usage costs you £500 per annum then a 20% reduction will save you £100 per annum.
So your new boiler has to perform reliably without fault for at least 15 years before it breaks even.

Edit : Beaten by a faster typer !!

D_Hailsham · 17 Aug 2020

Condensing boilers were made compulsory (with few exceptions) to reduce the amount of CO2 produced, not to save the user any money. They are more efficient than a non-condensing boiler, due to their improved design, so a condensing boiler still produces less CO2, even when not condensing.

Jackrae · 17 Aug 2020

D_Hailsham said:
Condensing boilers were made compulsory (with few exceptions) to reduce the amount of CO2 produced, not to save the user any money. They are more efficient than a non-condensing boiler, due to their improved design, so a condensing boiler still produces less CO2, even when not condensing.

That is the case for new purchases but even with the best will in the world, destroying a functioning unit coupled with the associated consumption of raw materials and manufacturing CO2 footprint may well offset the running 'gain'

Nitell · 17 Aug 2020

Many thanks for you opinions.

Problem is, tenant complain about cost, but I know they do not run to set patterns (didn't feel I should lecture them), you know like say, so many hours in the morning/afternoon. All it s been having is annual service/safety check.

Then I am worried that a new boiler will NEVER last five years without a breakdown. They will then be complaining about it.

Only thing I would get is increased EPC rating.

vulcancontinental · 17 Aug 2020

Nitell said:
Many thanks for you opinions.

Only thing I would get is increased EPC rating.

That's a very good point for me to remember regarding a sale or let.

winston1 · 18 Aug 2020

No one looks at EPC ratings when buying a house. So many other things to look at.

The Netaheat boilers were some of the most efficient at the time, something like 88%. If you still have the manual look at the gas input and rated output and divide output by input times 100.

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Reliable C H Boilers

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