Slate tiles slipping forward

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

I am getting quotes for a gutter replacing on a listed house from the 1800's and the slates/stone slates(?) on the roof are slipping forward at the edges and towards the gutter.

They are stone roof slates (could be yorkshire stone slates thanks to mrrusty). They are thicker than regular slate and the person who has lived here many moons said "stone slate"

One said about pushing them back and said it would need scaffolding (its only a 2 storey house) or cutting the ends off the stone roof slates instead??

One said about pushing them back but never said with or without scaffolding.

The end is quite far forward than they should be, but anyone have any input what is best to do here? Is this trimming something a dodgy roofer would do?

It is just the edge and not the whole roof, you can't tell there is anything wrong until you look at the gutter and see they have moved at the ends.

Not sure if one or two stone roof slates are affected or the whole roof. Before I was told all were nearing the end as per the pic, but the person that lives with me got the impression it was one or two but not sure why they would suggest cutting all the ends off it it was one or two...

Image from a few years ago
They are probably worse than this now but this is what it was like when it was hanging over a bit. A roofer took this pic so I can't compare what it is like now.

mrrusty · 22 Sep 2020

cutting the ends off the slate roof tiles instead??

Don't do this!

Slates only slip for 3 reasons.

1) they were never fixed properly in the first place (unlikely)
2) They have cracked in which case they need replacing (cracked slates are likely to leak)
3) the nails or battens are rotten and the roof has reached the end of life.

If it's (3) You can bet that if some nails or battens have rotted, then there will be others, and you will have continual problems until you bite the bullet and have the roof covering replaced/re-laid. If they are traditional slates on a listed building, you will have to use like for like - it is likely you would be able to re-use a high proportion of the existing slates.

You can push the odd slipped slate back and secure it with a tingle, but it is a stop-gap to the inevitable.

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

I didn't like that either! I was like whaaaat lol

It is a listed house from 1850 I think it was, so it is very old. The edge gradually slipped forward slightly as time passed.

I don't want to get the whole roof done as that is a huge job plus planning permission, and there are no other issues other than this. It is just the edges of the back of the house.

I think it is the entire edge that has slipped forward a little from what I can tell. It is a terraced house and you can see it continues down theirs too.
It isn't the stone slates that slipped one here and there as far as I know, it is just a gradual of all stone slates at the edge moved down at the ends into the gutter area (there is a pic from a few years ago below)

The roof itself looks fine and the stone slates look ok until you look at the gutter and see the edge has slipped forward a little.

The stone slates aren't cracked as someone once took a pic of them overhanging a little (into the gutter area) and they look fine, just all forward from where they should be.

This is an old pic so they must be worse now due to how the roofers that quoted for the gutter have mentioned that it is overhanging

The person that lives with me got the impression it was just one or two stone slates but from the pic I have from a few years ago and what I remember from years ago when one mentioned it, it was the entire edge like you can kind of see in the pic.

mrrusty · 22 Sep 2020

You really need advice from a professional roofing company who specializes in stone roofs. This isn't a job for a handyman!!

here's some info https://historicengland.org.uk/imag...ate-roofing-technical-advice-note/stoneslate/

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

mrrusty said:
You really need advice from a professional roofing company who specializes in stone roofs. This isn't a job for a handyman!!

here's some info https://historicengland.org.uk/imag...ate-roofing-technical-advice-note/stoneslate/

I haven't been asking handymen, I have been getting out roofers qualified as I wouldn't want a handyman on the house tbh with it being listed (no offence to any handymen here)

But I guess the trimming this guy suggested is a no no as I thought?

Speaking to the other person who lives in the house who spoke to the last roofer and he got the impression it was just 1 or 2 tiles but why would they suggest cutting the edges off it was. Plus from that old pic it looks to be all.

I got the impression it was the entire edge from what I had been told but maybe one or two are worse, I am not sure as it wasn't me that spoke to the last guy sadly.

Ugh this is not what I needed.

datarebal · 22 Sep 2020

The picture provided is not a lot use. a full on would help identify the stone and therefore hanging method and general condition.
do not be thrown by the delamination

Trimming.. wtf

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

datarebal said:
The picture provided is not a lot use. a full on would help identify the stone and therefore hanging method and general condition.
do not be thrown by the delamination

Trimming.. wtf

Sadly it is the only one I have as a builder took it a few years back.
I will try to get a better one if I can, I am working on borrowing a drone!

The person I live with said they are "stone slates", but not sure if that is a thing.
They are definitely slates and the house is stone in Yorkshire from 1850ish. They are thick and have a slightly different look to regular slates so if there is a thing such as stone slates then that is them.

I only wanted the gutter replacing and they saw the tiles which I knew from before I had been told were slipping slightly forward, but now as some are suggesting pinning them back I am guessing it is as they are getting worse.

That is what I thought as well! He said he could put some wood across in a straight line and cut the edges off so that they don't overlap the gutter anymore.
Sounded like the dodgiest bodge ever!

I had to say, I once remember someone else saying that in the past (who took that pic) saying you could trim off the ends. I was shocked and now another saying it.

The person I live with even was thinking about doing it but to me that is so lazy and dodgy.
I mean I get the idea, cut the ends off and they won't overlap the gutter anymore, but super dodgy to me as a non-roofer.
Is this definitely something I should avoid doing?

datarebal · 22 Sep 2020

if they had slipped trimming is not the answer. it will render the stone slate less capable of weathering. Head lap may already be reduced not good.

without up to date pictures one can only guess. There may not be the problem you are concerned about.

pictures of all sides..

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

It is just one long gutter at the back of the house
I am disabled and don't own a ladder that long anyway but I will try to borrow a drone to do it.

No one that looked at the roof was concerned about anything, they just said they were lower than they should be and may had slipped down, but they may have been like that for decades and it might just be one or two that is the issue, hard to know as it wasn't me they spoke to sadly.
They were lowish down a few years ago as per the pic but I don't know how it compares to now unless I can manage to get a drone pic.

The head lap before at least was still fine even though they were low down on the gutter. They aren't much different from looking at ground level then to now so it may be just a little worse than the previous pic, as I said I have no idea unless I can manage to get a pic as roofers aren't helpful at doing that for me.

datarebal · 22 Sep 2020

You can not see headlap from the ground. IF The slates have slipped then there will be reduced headlap at some point.

The reason for pictures showing the whole roof on both sides will tell me a lot more than the picture you shared.
It could simply have been like that since day one, the gutter being small .

find a roofer that can / will help

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

datarebal said:
You can not see headlap from the ground. IF The slates have slipped then there will be reduced headlap at some point.

The reason for pictures showing the whole roof on both sides will tell me a lot more than the picture you shared.
It could simply have been like that since day one, the gutter being small .

find a roofer that can / will help

I am trying to find a roofer as you can see.
I was literally just asking about the fact one wanted to trim the edges off so I wanted to know if that was normal.

It is not like I am here to do it myself

Spent weeks trying to find roofers that will come out, most are too busy, don't reply or dodgy like this. It is not like I am not trying.
I just need to know what is normal and what isn't which is why I posted here as there are many roofers on here.

It is a roofer that suggested doing the trimming so I thought I would ask here if that was normal as you can see from my first post.

datarebal · 22 Sep 2020

Ok then , do not trim

I

ukheather · 22 Sep 2020

Had another roofer get back to me and he said you can’t even push/pin them back and would have to reroof!
He wouldn’t even come out and look even though about 8 miles away max.

Gave his price for a gutter replacement even though he’s not been out and pretty much said no to the stone slate roof repair and mentioned his gutter replacement cost again.

This is getting ridiculous now. So hard to get a roofer around here!

Just got the quote from the guy that came out today who I asked to quote for wood, he didn’t bother and just quoted for twinplas plus “Cut bottom tiles to middle of gutter line to prevent water flowing over gutter, as discussed” even though we asked about correcting the issue properly.
The water doesn’t even overflow the gutter much as far as we know. It leaks from the cracks in the gutter itself which you see when it rains.
But yeah cutting tiles and charging a lot for it as well lol.
Very bodge job like from the comments here.

mrrusty · 23 Sep 2020

You keep calling them slates. It's not. It's a york stone roof and you need a specialist in stone roofs. You will undoubtedly have to wait to get the services of the best companies because they will be busy.

ukheather · 23 Sep 2020

mrrusty said:
You keep calling them slates. It's not. It's a york stone roof and you need a specialist in stone roofs. You will undoubtedly have to wait to get the services of the best companies because they will be busy.

Thanks no one told me, even roofers called them slates to us so that is what I said.I guess it is because "york stone roof slates" are still called slates but not in the traditional sense from reading about them.
Sorry I am just calling them what I have been told. 4 roofers said "slates" but I knew they weren't slate. These are 4 decently rated roofers all saying the same thing.
The person that lived here longer than me said "stone slates" so I used that term

I appreciate the confirmation of what they are.

I am guessing this stupid "cut the ends off" for york stone is even more ridiculous?

Yeah a small wait is fine, but one was 8 months which when rain pours over your windows and down the wall is too long.

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Slate tiles slipping forward

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