2 cut-out fuses

JohnW2 · 18 Oct 2020

jelliottelectrical said:
I think more information might help in this situation, I mean if the OP lives in a detached house with some distance between neighbours then it is unlikely that the second fuse ever served a neighbour

Indeed so.

jelliottelectrical said:
My money is on it being an old Dc supply that has been converted and is now just two phases, given the age of the incoming cable and the cutout, and that the fuse holders have been changed.

As I said when that suggestion was made early on, it's certainly a possibility, but there are some things which perhaps make that less likely. For example, those 'new' fuse holders certainly post-date DC supplies, so it's not clear why it would have been fitted - unless for the reason previously suggested (the person who did it had no 'blankers' in his van, and therefore used a fuse holder instead).

jelliottelectrical said:
... That being said, the village where I grew up has no mains gas, and so a lot of people relied on storage heaters. A lot of people have now a second cutout fuse, that is redundant, having once served all the off peak heating. ... the bigger houses around here were built like that, obviously too greater load for the one fuse, but not enough to warrant a three phase supply.

Are you talking about two fuses fed from the same single phase? If so, is that just because they didn't have a fuse of high enough rating and/or they were concerned about the 'rating' of the fuse holder?

I presume that would only apply to very large properties. Certainly in the past, I've seen countless 'average-size' houses heated by storage heaters and virtually all (***) have had a single-phase installation with a single (80A or 100A) fuse.

[*** my house is unusually large and rural (no piped gas) and was once heated with storage heaters, but it it did (and still does) have 3-phase supply - but it's the only domestic installation I can recall having seen in which 3-phase supply was used for storage heaters ].

Kind Regards, John

b21playa · 18 Oct 2020

Hi all

we have gas and there’s about 8m between our meter and the neighbours.

bernardgreen · 18 Oct 2020

b21playa said:
it’s a 6-bed detached over 3 floors, always been a domestic dwelling

Could it once have been split into 2 separate units. That unpainted area could have been where another meter was once fitted

b21playa · 18 Oct 2020

bernardgreen said:
Could it once have been split into 2 separate units. That unpainted area could have been where another meter was once fitted

There were plans years ago to have half used as a surgery and other half for living, but it never went ahead.

jelliottelectrical · 18 Oct 2020

JohnW2 said:
Are you talking about two fuses fed from the same single phase? If so, is that just because they didn't have a fuse of high enough rating and/or they were concerned about the 'rating' of the fuse holder?

I presume that would only apply to very large properties. Certainly in the past, I've seen countless 'average-size' houses heated by storage heaters and virtually all (***) have had a single-phase installation with a single (80A or 100A) fuse.

No these are all two phases (so three wires) fed from the standard 4 wire overheads

These houses would have had 8-10 storage heaters fitted, so would have been too much load for the one 100a fuse

JohnW2 · 18 Oct 2020

jelliottelectrical said:
No these are all two phases (so three wires) fed from the standard 4 wire overheads

Oh, fair enough - so just a 'conventional' 2-phase supply, and hence not 'looped' in any sense - but, as you say/imply, one possible reason for a second, now unused, fuse carrier.

jelliottelectrical said:
These houses would have had 8-10 storage heaters fitted, so would have been too much load for the one 100a fuse

Again, fair enough. I'm not sure how many storage heaters there have been in the 'average' houses I've seen over the years but, as I said, I don't recall having seen one which wasn't running it off one phase, and a single fuse - but maybe I haven't been observant enough (and/or my memory is suffering from old age)!

Kind Regards, John

jelliottelectrical · 18 Oct 2020

JohnW2 said:
Oh, fair enough - so just a 'conventional' 2-phase supply, and hence not 'looped' in any sense - but, as you say/imply, one possible reason for a second, now unused, fuse carrier.
Again, fair enough. I'm not sure how many storage heaters there have been in the 'average' houses I've seen over the years but, as I said, I don't recall having seen one which wasn't running it off one phase, and a single fuse - but maybe I haven't been observant enough (and/or my memory is suffering from old age)!

Kind Regards, John

I think quote often a lot of houses had storage heating retrofitting and so would have to suit the heating load to the available supply. Whereas these houses were built with it

I do know of a customer who had to have a three phase supply installed to serve a GEC night store 100! (Basically a massive storage Heather that drove conventional wet radiators)

JohnW2 · 18 Oct 2020

jelliottelectrical said:
I think quote often a lot of houses had storage heating retrofitting ...

Indeed, and that probably represents the great majority of (probably nearly all) cases I have seen.

jelliottelectrical said:
... and so would have to suit the heating load to the available supply.

Indeed.

jelliottelectrical said:
.... Whereas these houses were built with it ...

Fair enough. I would suspect that this probably related primarily to one-offs and small developments, since I would not have thought that a major housing development would have been built without piped gas?

Kind Regards, John

SUNRAY · 18 Oct 2020

jelliottelectrical said:
I do know of a customer who had to have a three phase supply installed to serve a GEC night store 100! (Basically a massive storage Heather that drove conventional wet radiators)

Horrible things, big and ****ing hot all the time, theres a range of them about 2ft to 4ft wide and 5ft high, they need a 30A to 60A 3ph supply. A silly design with big heat storage blocks and a fan to blow the heat onto a heat exchanger to provide the radiators. The heat exchangers seem to suffer with blockages especially when numpty wetboys do a powerflush and push the crap from the rads into the exchanger.
I've seen several converted to warm air rather than wet. I doubt there are many still in operation as a wet system.

jelliottelectrical · 18 Oct 2020

JohnW2 said:
Indeed, and that probably represents the great majority of (probably nearly all) cases I have seen.
Indeed.
Fair enough. I would suspect that this probably related primarily to one-offs and small developments, since I would not have thought that a major housing development would have been built without piped gas?

Kind Regards, John

yes these would all be ones offs in the village, though there is a small development nearby (10 houses built late 80s) with no gas and three phase supplies To each for electric heating. Most now have switched to oil or lpg

jelliottelectrical · 18 Oct 2020

SUNRAY said:
Horrible things, big and ****ing hot all the time, theres a range of them about 2ft to 4ft wide and 5ft high, they need a 30A to 60A 3ph supply. A silly design with big heat storage blocks and a fan to blow the heat onto a heat exchanger to provide the radiators. The heat exchangers seem to suffer with blockages especially when numpty wetboys do a powerflush and push the crap from the rads into the exchanger.
I've seen several converted to warm air rather than wet. I doubt there are many still in operation as a wet system.

This was a massive one, took a 60a three phase supply, the customer was keen to keep hold of it as she had spent a lot of money having the bricks replaced about 6 years ago. There is still at least one company around that works on them still

SUNRAY · 18 Oct 2020

JohnW2 said:
Indeed, and that probably represents the great majority of (probably nearly all) cases I have seen.
Indeed.
Fair enough. I would suspect that this probably related primarily to one-offs and small developments, since I would not have thought that a major housing development would have been built without piped gas?

Kind Regards, John

I know of only 2 developements built this way, one is best part of 1000 and other 300 but within 10 years or so both had gas laid on. Personally I dislike storage heating but even now I know a number of people who are happy with it. An elderly relative in sheltered accomodation was changed to a wet system on a communal boiler and he seems to be struggling with it. I can't help but think it may have something to do with the room stat [sensor] being mounted on the other side of the wall where the heat exchanger is.

JohnW2 · 18 Oct 2020

SUNRAY said:
I know of only 2 developements built this way, one is best part of 1000 and other 300 but within 10 years or so both had gas laid on.

Those are the sort of large housing developments' I was thinking of that I would expect to be provided with gas supplies, and you say they did. ... so why do people with gas favour storage heaters, I wonder? With careful management (and off-peak electricity) it might be just about possible in some cases to make it 'cost effective', but storage heaters are never going to be as versatile or controllable as gas CH.

Kind Regards, John

SUNRAY · 18 Oct 2020

JohnW2 said:
No gas? Those are the sort of large housing developments' I was thinking of that I would expect to be provided with gas supplies, and you say they did. ... so why do people with gas favour storage heaters, I wonder? With careful management (and off-peak electricity) it might be just about possible in some cases to make it 'cost effective', but storage heaters are never going to be as versatile or controllable as gas CH.

Kind Regards, John

Completely agree, I wouldn't want the hassle.

The relative has been in the complex for 30 years or so and got very used to NSH, prior to that it was a coke fired boiler. As I said I think the 'problem' is the wrong placement of the room stat being affected by the heat coming through the wall from the heat exchanger.

aptsys · 19 Oct 2020

AndyPRK said:
One fuse could go thru wall to next door?

Fusebox brand rcbos are £10 ish

Fusebox RCBOs are trash. We're forever replacing them - the mechanism seems to come detached from the lever at the front so the RCBO is no longer operational after a trip.

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2 cut-out fuses

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