Joncryl Primer or Zinnser BIN for skirting & architrave?

Hi,
I'm repainting skirting boards, architraves & door frames that had multiple layers of gloss paint in the last 50 years. I've stripped the paint with heat gun due lead paint present in the last layer (or the very first coat of primer/undercoat?). I would like to use Johnstone's Aqua Satin for my top coat, which I'm supposed to use the Joncryl Primer because it's the same system. However, previous painted surface had many knots coming through and I want to avoid this. Will Joncryl primer block stain? If not, is zinnser BIN the right product to use for water-based satin?




Many Thanks.

BIN will be fine for spot priming the knots but it dries so fast that I would not want to use it prime all of the wood. I have seen videos of Americans using it to prime woodwork architraves and skirting but none of them ever zoom in so that you can see the quality of finish.

Oh, and it is pig to sand flat. On the up side, it doesn't raise the grain of the wood. All waterbased paints do. That said, I prime timber with Leyland Trade waterbased primer but I do so because it is a dream to sand flat. The key difference is that I then apply oil based paints over the top, safe in the knowledge that there will be no more grain raising.

I have only used the Johntones waterbased eggshell once. The customer specified it. I found it difficult to apply as it doesn't flow as well as OB eggshell and I had to apply many more coats than I would have if I had been using OB. Other issues were blocking- doors sticking slightly to the door stops days after painting and the customer was annoyed that the window shelf that he puts his keys and loose change on kept getting black marks from the ferrous elements in them.

I understand why people use WB paints, I just don't like them personally.

Edit-----------

To date- the only waterbased paint that I have used that was pleasant to apply was Eico WB eggshell. I particularly liked the fact that that it sanded nicely between coats (using 180 grit stearate coated silicone carbide paper). I first used it in a hallway that had previously been painted by me with OB paints but which has little natural light, resulting in the woodwork yellowing over the years. The Eico was pants at obliterating the yellowed white paint, so I used OB undercoat first (allowing it to cure for a few days to mitigate the risk of fisheyes in the Eico).

Funnily enough I have to use it tomorrow. I had to remove and re-fit skirting boards for a customer who needed to repair their engineered floor. The remainder in the old tin had gone hard so I needed to order more. I only need 1L and could not justify tavelling from Ealing to Fulham to buy it. I ordered it from the following website and it is being delivered to site today.

https://allfinishes.co.uk/eico-flat-eggshell-paint

The next time I need more, I will definitely order it from All Finishes.

Think id get knotting solution over the knots then zinsser cover stain over the the lot. That builds up a bit and will denib really nice.
Then use your chosen matching undercoat and top coat following guide.
Consider scuff-x as a satin finish. So much nicer to use and way easier application.
Zinsser BIN as a all in one shellac will work. I'd apply 2 coats then undercoat to kill colour followed by satin paint.
All these options will work fine. The paint world has moved on so much and there are many ways to tackle these jobs. Study drying times in the data sheets following application advice. People do rush and get paint trouble not allowing enough drying times

Wayners said:

Think id get knotting solution over the knots then zinsser cover stain over the the lot. That builds up a bit and will denib really nice.
Then use your chosen matching undercoat and top coat following guide.
Consider scuff-x as a satin finish. So much nicer to use and way easier application.
Zinsser BIN as a all in one shellac will work. I'd apply 2 coats then undercoat to kill colour followed by satin paint.
All these options will work fine. The paint world has moved on so much and there are many ways to tackle these jobs. Study drying times in the data sheets following application advice. People do rush and get paint trouble not allowing enough drying times

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Scuff-X is highly recommended by people in the Painter's Pit Stop forum. Perhaps I should try it out one day.

Zinsser BIN, how do you apply it? Early last year, I worked in a 5 bedroom house which was being redecorated. I was there to paint new MDF wardrobe doors. The customer wanted a finish that looked like it had been sprayed and then a dilute coat of OB eggshell applied so that it had minor tramlines on the styles and rails. The other decorators on site used BIN as a base coat to paint the room doors. They used rad rollers and brushes. From a distance the doors the doors looked acceptable but close up you could see the irregular brush marks and roller stipple.

Years ago, my bread and butter was as a cabinet painter. I once tried to use BIN to prime a brand new, raw MDF cabinet (doors to waist height and shelving above)- approx 5m by 2.7m tall. I decided to use BIN. I thought that the lack of grain raising would save me time. Application time was the same as if I stuck with my regular Leyland acrylic primer but sanding flat time went from 1.3 days to 3 days. Primer material costs were more than double and abrasive coste were up to 4 times higher.

That was the last time I used BIN to seal MDF.

@opps
Mdf you need to spray or any large flat surfaces. Suck the life out of paints never mind the fast drying.
Acrylic primer is good enough for mdf but I rarely paint it.
As for BIN roller or brush and just get it on. Don't worry about it covering as just a sealer and blocker. Coverstain will have a better wet edge plus build up and fills but that old wood will want something to stain block.
Also if you have to use BIN on larger areas then get a few rattle cans and warm them up a bit for a good finish then roller for top coats if not spraying.
Bedec is another good option as easily obtained. It's the oils in the aqua that seem to make it go cream colour too quickly for my liking

Wayners said:

@opps
Mdf you need to spray or any large flat surfaces. Suck the life out of paints never mind the fast drying.
Acrylic primer is good enough for mdf but I rarely paint it.

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I do spray with acid-cat but never on site. Too much over spray and too toxic, oh and illegal.

My usual on site painting is one coat of Leyland acrylic primer (with Floetrol and occasionally a tiny bit of water). I sand that flat using a DA sander with 220 grit paper and a foam interface pad. I sand it until I can see the imperfections in the MDF (eg the factory sanding grooves). The result is that I sand away as much as 50(?) percent of the primer. I am effectively using the primer as a fine filler and visual aid, once the peaks of the factor sanding grooves are visibly a different colour to the white primer I am happy that the MDF is flat. The Leyland primer is the only one that I have found which sands flat without overheating and clogging the paper. I then apply two coats of oil based Dulux trade eggshell (with white spirit and Owatrol oil). The first coat helps to lock the continuing suction. If the client insists on satinwood, I might need to apply an extra coat to ensure a constant sheen level. Post 2010 VOC compliance, if the paint is white, I still apply 2 coats of eggshell but application time has become longer because I need to ensure a lighter touch to maintain uniform colour coverage.

In my experience BIN (on MDF) goes on far too thick and is a mare to sand flat. I haven't tried Coverstain and am unlikely to anytime soon given that the Leyland is a fraction of the cost and works for me, nevertheless, thanks for the heads up.

BIN spray- I have probably only ever purchased about four tins. I had never thought of heating the tins but I have always found that they start to spit and clog after a few minutes. Heating seems to make sense as it will make it easier for the propellant to atomise the paint.

Bedec- I haven't tried it. Perhaps I should but I am not sure if any of my local suppliers sell it (I have never actually checked though).

Tnx

Ty both for the replies and the informative discussion. A sale staff also warned me about difficult flow with BIN and recommended Fossa Block and Bond, I am almost sold when he said the price is half of BIN. Do you know the product?

@opps I am not keen on OB Paint due to yellowing and the smell from previous experience 10 years ago. Are modern OB paints much different now?

@Wayners Scuff-X seem like an amazing product but it comes with a price tag. Does it need the usual 2 coats like others? Is there other cheaper paint you could recommend if Johnstones isn’t a good choice?

I’ve been thinking about spraying all the trims and possibly walls too if machine allows, perhaps Wagner 590. Is there any tips when choosing a sprayer for DIY?

Fossa block and bond is cheaper and I do use but I BIN. Not much in it though.
Try bedec satin maybe as good stuff.
I use haupon tm 71 to spray sometimes but hvlp is slow going for large areas. More for trim.

VickyBH said:

@opps I am not keen on OB Paint due to yellowing and the smell from previous experience 10 years ago. Are modern OB paints much different now?

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After the 2010 VOC compliance, oil based paints were prone to yellow very quickly. It took them a couple of years to sort that out. IMO, they now yellow at the same rate that they did in the old days. The smell has been pretty constant through out.

VickyBH said:

I’ve been thinking about spraying all the trims and possibly walls too if machine allows, perhaps Wagner 590. Is there any tips when choosing a sprayer for DIY?

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I only have an old Fuji HVLP sprayer. I wouldn't consider trying to paint walls with it. I have never used a DIY grade set up and so cannot comment. Ideally, if painting walls you would use a piston driven airless sprayer, one with a lance so that you don't have to climb up and down ladders. Sprayed emulsion on new plaster looks great but masking times and overspray. plus cleaning the pipes has put me off investing in one.

So I've created new problems for myself now. Just took a closed look of the skirting board and saw that I've melted some knots off the skirtings and architrave in the process of using heat gun. Also, some part of skirting had very a stubborn layer of OB paint that just wouldn't bubbled up so I had to scrape it with force and I've created some dented surface scratch. I suppose I'll have to use a wood filler but the surface has lead and is there any tips on sanding down the filler? Also, is there a good general wood filler or must I use 2 part filler for long lasting finish?

2 pack filler will be more resistant to knocks from vacuum cleaners/etc. It also has the advantage of being sandable after 30-40 minutes. It is harder to sand though.

For minor dinks that are unlikely to be hit by things, I would use either Toupret Redlite or RedDevil OneTime. They are lightweight fillers that are easy to sand.

I strongly recommend against using powder fillers that you mix with water. I used them when I first started decorating until I redecorated a room 5 years later and discovered that most of the filler had blown. I now only ever use them on plaster.

My sanders are connected to dust extractors, some times you can connect sanders to standard vacuum cleaners using masking tape.

I'd use ronseal 2-part personally on skirting. It starts to go off ridiculously quick though, so get moving! It sands pretty easy I find.

On the paint subject, I tend to use knotting solution then Leyland Trade acrylic primer, goes on nice and dries quick, sands easy too.

I still find OB paints yellow too quick, I've been using Armstead satin topcoat but it seems screwfix have stopped selling it.

@daggermark
Try helmi 30 with a splash of Xim.
Bedec satin is similar product with a splash of Xim to. Both don't yellow. Crown fastflow is an alkid though so will yellow but will take ages to turn. Nice application though...

I too like the the leyland but I think coverstain is a one I should use more than I do

Will pick up some Bedec and give it a whirl next time, cheers.

daggermark said:

Will pick up some Bedec and give it a whirl next time, cheers.

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Try a, splash of extender in. I use Xim but you can pick up Floetrol easily