I'm sure that you are not aloneIt's a single user unit with 1 pc, security stuff and a telephone. ... I don't think we are bothering.
Kind Regards, John
SPD's - are they required or just nice to have?
- Thread starter mattylad
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Kind Regards, John
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It's a single user unit with 1 pc, security stuff and a telephone.
I don't think we are bothering.
What else can’t you be bothered to do properly?
In the context of this thread, I personally don't think there is anything remotely obvious about what "properly" means.
If some people think that, by not installing SPDs in my house, I am "not doing things properly", then they are obviously entitled to that view, but it's not going to change my thinking!
Kind Regards, John
It’s penny pinching. Working to the absolute minimum standard that can be got away with.
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So RF, do you ALWAYS install them?
It's not my choice to not install them or the afdd wotsits.
I just pointed them out and got the reply "whats an spd?" then "I'm only a 17th edition" and walks off.
From what I can see, they are a good idea but for a 3 phase board that's already wired and operational - it wont be rewired to include a 3ph spd.
Like having a lightning arrestor on my antenna feed, good idea but not everyone does it nor suffers through not having one.
But thanks for the comments on them.
It's not my choice to not install them or the afdd wotsits.
I just pointed them out and got the reply "whats an spd?" then "I'm only a 17th edition" and walks off.
From what I can see, they are a good idea but for a 3 phase board that's already wired and operational - it wont be rewired to include a 3ph spd.
Like having a lightning arrestor on my antenna feed, good idea but not everyone does it nor suffers through not having one.
But thanks for the comments on them.
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I find that this is exactly what every single electrician I have ever worked with does.
If it means doing more work, taking longer or spending more ££ then it won't be done.
I prefer to do things properly, to take my time and do a good job, an installation would finish looking like the inside of the panels I build but on the wall
Another thing that doesn't help do a good job is how crappy the parts are.
The supplier gets asked for say 16A 110/230/415v sockets, ordered and what turns up has the cheapest ****ty terminals in, screws don't tighten up enough without stripping or breaking, the earth terminal is a crappy bit of choc block not a decent earth, metalwork is the thinnest et all.
Doing a proper job is an expensive luxury that many will not afford.
I could never be an electrician, I'm too slow and have too high a standard that I hold myself too.
To be fair, I don’t install many new boards these days, but those I do I would install SPD as standard.
You said in your opening post that this is a full new installation including DB so a good few thousand quids worth of work. An extra £200 into the price of the job is hardly an extravagance.
Perhaps you are working with the wrong electricians. I have worked for and subbed to many companies and this certainly hasn’t been my experience.
As for crap parts, if I asked my wholesaler for the cheapest parts available then that’s exactly what I’d get, but I don’t. I specify makes and models and that way I get decent materials which work out as cheap in the long run as they are quicker and easier to install, and there are no warranty call backs to deal with.
You said in your opening post that this is a full new installation including DB so a good few thousand quids worth of work. An extra £200 into the price of the job is hardly an extravagance.
Perhaps you are working with the wrong electricians. I have worked for and subbed to many companies and this certainly hasn’t been my experience.
As for crap parts, if I asked my wholesaler for the cheapest parts available then that’s exactly what I’d get, but I don’t. I specify makes and models and that way I get decent materials which work out as cheap in the long run as they are quicker and easier to install, and there are no warranty call backs to deal with.
I'm not sure whether your comments relate specifically to matty's (commercial) situation, or are meant to be more generally - but mine were certainly intended as 'general', particularly in relation to domestic installations (in this DIY forum).
I work to my own standards, which often go way beyond the 'minimum required' (let alone 'the minimum that can be got away with'). However, when I see/feel absolutely no personal need for something, I do not feel that I am in any way 'lowering my standards' by not having/doing it.
Kind Regards, John
It’s a general statement. Domestic SPDs can be picked up for £20. That’s nothing on the cost of a CU.
There were lots of people moaning and refusing to install those new fangled and completely pointless RCDs when they first came out too.
There were lots of people moaning and refusing to install those new fangled and completely pointless RCDs when they first came out too.
There were -
First one required, then two and now one per circuit is best.
How long before two per circuit - just in case?
What I find strange is that there is still no cost effective way therefore no regulation to test MCBs.
Very true - but, at least speaking personally, it's nothing to do with money. If I perceived a need, I would have them - and, as I said before, I do not think that deciding that I don't have a need constitutes 'lowering my standards'.
As far as I am personally concerned, in relation to domestic installations, these devices are probably 'solutions looking for a problem'. As I asked before, why are some people now so keen on SPDs in domestic CUs when many of us were (and probably still are) usually describing 'surge protection' extension leads etc as being a waste of money'? What I reacted to was ...
... since, if "required" means "required because of a need", then I really do 'wonder', particularly in relation to domestic installations.
Well, you probably know some of my thoughts about that
However, at least RCDs would seem to be far more obviously/directly related to 'safety'-inspired issues than are SPDs.Kind Regards, John
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Almost all appliances that could be susceptible are already integrated with appropriate surge protection - it's basically mandatory in order to pass the surge and electrical fast transients testing during EMC compliance.
I think most of us, at the very least, "question the need" for SPDs, but the regs do now require them for many situations - and TBH for many installations it's going to be more hassle and time (i.e. cost) to work out whether the rules allow them to be omitted than it does to include them in a new install. I would not suggest retrofitting them unless a) there was a perceived problem that they might solve, or b) there's sufficient work being done as to make the current regs apply to an old installation (in the same was as we don't have to retrofit RCDs, but if we add a new circuit/extend an existing one such that the new work does need one then it makes sense to fit it in the board (if possible).
And an SPD fitted in the main board will be less useless than a surge protected extension lead (though they have their uses when used correctly). If other services (phone, aerials, etc) are also routed ther and are surge protected with the same common reference point then there will be some practical protection - if not then it's going to be marginal at best.
Let me correct that for you, "that could be susceptible should be already integrated with appropriate surge protection". As I pointed out in an earlier post, while that may be true buying genuine stuff from a reputable manufacturer via official channels - once you start looking at the the likes of eBay etc, then all bets are off (except my money would be on a lot of it NOT having the required protection). Heck, so much of it doesn't even have the right size pins on the plug
You may well be right, but that doesn't make me any happier about a regulatory requirement for something which I personally believe is, in the great majority of cases, unnecessary.
Clearly sensible if there really was a "[reasonably] perceived [significant] problem that they might solve", but I suspect that would be a very rare situation. In all other cases, as above, I would not be particularly happy about a regulatory requirement for something which I personally believe is, in the great majority of cases, unnecessary.
I'm not at all sure that I would support a regulatory requirement which existed to prevent sub-standard and/or illegally-imported products from being damaged!Let me correct that for you, "that could be susceptible should be already integrated with appropriate surge protection". As I pointed out in an earlier post, while that may be true buying genuine stuff from a reputable manufacturer via official channels - once you start looking at the the likes of eBay etc, then all bets are off (except my money would be on a lot of it NOT having the required protection). Heck, so much of it doesn't even have the right size pins on the plug
Having said that, I think that even that 'risk' is probably seriously over-estimated. Over the years, I've bought a good few very cheap and very nasty electronic items (a good few of which were probably 'illegally imported') and I can't say that I'm aware of any of them ever having suffered as a result of 'surges' - and I have a very low "CRL", living (for 30+ years) in a rural environment (fenv=85) in a high risk area of UK (Ng = 1.0) and on the end of lengthy (HV and LV) overhead distribution network - in other words, not a lot of places would have a lower "CRL" than I do.
Kind Regards, John
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