Hager RCBOs - difference?

phatboy · 2 Jan 2021

Hi,

Is there a reason anybody knows of, why some otherwise seemingly identical Hager RCBOs have a red indicator at the bottom, but others don't? (I know the ones shown are different current ratings)

Is it just a change of design, or something else?

Thanks!

bernardgreen · 2 Jan 2021

Some RCBOs that have tripped need to have the operating lever pressed further down before being lifted up to switch the RCBO back ON.

If on these RCBOs the lever is just lifted up to the "ON" then it remains in the UP position and hence appears to be ON when in fact it is still switched OFF

Maybe the indicator is to show the true state of the RCBO

Taylortwocities · 2 Jan 2021

bernardgreen said:
Some RCBOs that have tripped need to have the operating lever pressed further down before being lifted up to switch the RCBO back ON.

I have never seen that function on any RCBO, and certainly not Hager ones. Only come across it on a (very) few RCDs like MK.

bernardgreen said:
Maybe the indicator is to show the true state of the RCBO

More likely. Probably a European regulation Hee hee

crystal ball · 2 Jan 2021

It was feature on older Square D RCBOs, got me a good few call outs and still does

Taylortwocities · 2 Jan 2021

Aah. I must get out more.

AndyPRK · 2 Jan 2021

I would like to say it flags a colour in the window if the Rcd element has caused the trip. Rather than over current.
But that’s probably wishful thinking !

333rocky333 · 2 Jan 2021

I think Hagar used to be 6kA domestic and 10kA commercial, and they have now phased out the 6KvA ones

Risteard · 2 Jan 2021

333rocky333 said:
I think Hagar used to be 6kva domestic and 10kva commercial, and they have now phased out the 6Kva ones

I presume you mean 6kA and 10kA - not kVA.

They have not phased out the 6kA devices. Domestic type devices remain as 6kA, with commercial/industrial devices at 10kA. But Type AC devices is certainly a thing of the past with Hager - or at least to a large extent, and rightly so. Much of the world rightly prohibits the use of Type AC RCDs.

JohnW2 · 2 Jan 2021

AndyPRK said:
I would like to say it flags a colour in the window if the Rcd element has caused the trip. Rather than over current. But that’s probably wishful thinking !

That would be very useful (at times) if it were the case but, as you say, it is probably wishful thinking!

Kind Regards, John

RF Lighting · 2 Jan 2021

As far as I am aware, Hager do a domestic and a commercial RCBO, the main difference being the length of the tails. The domestic RCBOs were only available in 6kA and didn’t have the window, and the commercial ones were 6kA or 10kA and had the window.

JohnW2 · 3 Jan 2021

RF Lighting said:
As far as I am aware, Hager do a domestic and a commercial RCBO, the main difference being the length of the tails. The domestic RCBOs were only available in 6kA and didn’t have the window, and the commercial ones were 6kA or 10kA and had the window.

As a matter of interest, when/why are the 10 kA ones used? In terms of domestic installations, the general belief seems to be that when the dispensation for 6 kA devices does not apply (e.g. if the devices are not part of a 'type-tested CU') then one has to use 16 kA ones.

Kind Regards, John

RF Lighting · 3 Jan 2021

10kA breakers are only required on larger commercial / industrial supplies.

I can’t remember where I was taught this, but AIUI, with a standard domestic supply, in the unlikely event that the Ipfc exceeds 6kA, it is still permissible to use 6kA devices as the cutout (assuming it is not BS 3036) will provide sufficient protection to the installation.

JohnW2 · 3 Jan 2021

RF Lighting said:
I can’t remember where I was taught this, but AIUI, with a standard domestic supply, in the unlikely event that the Ipfc exceeds 6kA, it is still permissible to use 6kA devices as the cutout (assuming it is not BS 3036) will provide sufficient protection to the installation.

I thought that one had to consider not just the actual (i.e. as measured) PFC (which will virtually never be >6 kA in a domestic installation) but, rather, the maximum 'theoretically possible' PFC, which, 'on enquiry' the DNO will always say is 16 kA - and that, per 536.4.201, use of 6 kA devices would then only be acceptable if they were part of a 'type-tested' CU to BS EN 61439-3, "including the 16 kA conditional short circuit test" which is apparently in Annex ZB of that Standard (and which, I believe, takes into account upstream protection by a cutout fuse ≤100A). Is that not the case?

Kind Regards, John

phatboy · 3 Jan 2021

RF Lighting said:
As far as I am aware, Hager do a domestic and a commercial RCBO, the main difference being the length of the tails. The domestic RCBOs were only available in 6kA and didn’t have the window, and the commercial ones were 6kA or 10kA and had the window.

Having wasted my evening (I was bored!) looking at various pictures, this seems very likely.

Generally, but not always, the ones with the indicator have a black neutral wire, where as the ones without have blue neutral wires.

Curious they would put an indicator on the 'commercial' version only, and that the spec. is otherwise identical!

Thanks for the help everyone

flameport · 3 Jan 2021

For domestic installs <100A, there is always an upstream fuse, and the breaking capacity of devices can be less than 16kA as specified in that standard.
That only applies if the consumer unit is installed as specified by the manufacturer, and contains the devices made by that manufacturer.
It's one of the reasons shoving MCBs from different manufacturers into the same enclosure is a very bad idea.

For other installations the same principles apply, however it is up to the designer of the installation to ensure that the combination of protective devices used are appropriate for the fault levels at each part of the installation.

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Hager RCBOs - difference?

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