Rewiring Fun. Estimating the Age of Electrics

I'm not aware of any reg (in BS7671) which explicitly requires a front panel - are you perhaps referring to what is required by a product Standard?

Kind Regards, John
Yes, as you know, “18th” CUs are generally metal (etc) and to contain fire snd the standard calls for there to be a front cover. The front cover is usually hinged at the top so it can’t be left open.

IIRC. BS7671 permits a CU to be contained in a non flammable housing of some sort, so I suppose that some work with dons pink plasterboard and a change of the MCBs to RCBOs would meet compliance.
 
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I'm not aware of any reg (in BS7671) which explicitly requires a front panel - are you perhaps referring to what is required by a product Standard?

Kind Regards, John
Yes, as you know, “18th” CUs are generally metal (etc) and to contain fire snd the standard calls for there to be a front cover. The front cover is usually hinged at the top so it can’t be left open.

IIRC. BS7671 permits a CU to be contained in a non flammable housing of some sort, so I suppose that some work with some pink plasterboard and a change of the MCBs to RCBOs would meet compliance.
 
I'm going to guess 1990's given this was the last extension?
Likely, although that particular range of circuit breakers was available well into the 2000s so it could be more recent.
Either way it doesn't comply now, including that old Wylex RCD in the garage which appears to have the wrong covers on it.
The meter was installed in 1999.
The whole lot needs to be replaced.

None of it is original to the building, but the wiring could be. Old wiring might be usable, or maybe not, particularly as 1970 was right in the middle of the era of green oily gunge leaking from the cables.
Cutout being upside down probably means an overhead supply, and that's the last place anyone would want a PME / TN-C-S supply. Further adjustments probably required.

Sadly the current owners are refusing any more visitors now so I'm having to go with what I have with photos.
Suggest taking £10k off the price for a rewire, plus another £10k for every other thing that they won't allow any inspection of, such as central heating, windows, the roof, etc.
 
Either way it doesn't comply now, including that old Wylex RCD in the garage which appears to have the wrong covers on it.
Now I've looked again I see that. I believe that is the arrangement fitted inside a CU and not designed to be used as shown.
 
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It does smell a bit of an overhead TT that has been converted to PME. That could be a PME notice on the left hand side of the meter behind that metal thingy.

Probably the single RCD replaced the original VO ELCB
 
Bad news1. The front door panel of the CU is missing, so it no longer complies with regs.
Cross that off the list, unless you can cite a standard that requires it.
See post 25 of this thread where it's discussed. BS61439 does NOT specify a cover, let alone a self closing one. As far as I could determine, it's just one of those "made up" requirements that somehow got into folklore and won't go away - I imagine LFB would have been happy to specify that it needs to be made of unobtanium and have a 3 week fire rating :whistle:

As for the OPs original questions, I think the only answer is that it could all be mostly OK and just need updates to the CU, or it could all be a total horlicks and need a total rewire. The extensions could have been done properly, or they could have been done by a builder who shouldn't be let loose with washing lines let alone electrics. Only inspection would determine where in the spectrum between those two it fell.

If that SWA is indeed the feed to the CU, then there is no requirement for it to be RCD protected. So the RCD by the meter can be replaced with an isolator, or it could be removed completely and the tails taken into the switch fuse.
Then it's just a matter of adding appropriate RCD protection in the CU - and yes, I'd suggest RCBOs for everything. If they havn't changed the design "because we can", it may be possible to just retrofit the whole contents of the board without swapping out the case.
 
Unfortunately I'm pretty sure contactum changed their whole range a few years back.

Though you might be able to replace the entire contents including stuff like busbars with something modern. Opinions vary on the compliance of that approach though because it's not fully type tested.
 
Yes, as you know, “18th” CUs are generally metal (etc) and to contain fire ...
Definitely not :) It requires only that it be constructed out of 'non-combustible' material ["metal (etc)"] but says absolutely nothing about 'fire containment'. A metal CU would be compliant with the "18th" if it was absolutely covered in holes (on all surfaces other than the top), hence certainly non 'fire-containing' - provided only that the holes were smaller than 12 mm (to preserve the required IP rating).
... snd the standard calls for there to be a front cover.
As I said/asked, I wondered if that's what you meant (given that BS7671 does not, itself, explicitly require a front cover) - but I don't think that the Standard actually does require that.

Kind Regards, John
 
Though you might be able to replace the entire contents including stuff like busbars with something modern. Opinions vary on the compliance of that approach though because it's not fully type tested.
Well once you remove all "the gubbins" you have a tin box with a DIN rail in it. The dimensions of the DIN rail are standardised, and I think (stand to be corrected) that the relationship between the DIN rail and the big slot in the front panel is also standardised. So you could fit any make of gubbins and, as you say, as long as you use a complete matching set then it's hard to see how it could not be OK electrically. Peel off the sticker with the name on and who would know anyway.
Technically it wold be non-compliant, but I challenge anyone to come up with a rational situation where a set of switchgear designed to sit on a DIN rail in a tin box could possibly have a problem sitting on a DIN rail in a tin box with a different name on the front. In fact I am considering doing exactly that at home - it's got a modern steel CU (CEF's finest own-brand) but only an RCD for a main switch (there's another CU for the other half of the house). I see no technical reason not to just ditch the gubbins and fit a new set (RCBOs) on the same DIN rail. There's room for more ways if I nibble out the front panel a bit.
 
As said it is wiring which is important, the consumer unit is easy enough to replace.

I had a house buyers survey done, it arrived just one week before exchange, which was rather late, missed loads, and really a waste of money.

Most houses have a mixture, late mothers house built 1954 had the kitchen, and wet room rewired, and mixture of rubber and PVC there would have been no way to work this out from the CU, as these were 2004 or latter, but it needed and had full rewire.

This house had a hidden fuse box, there has to be a proper survey and I can see why occupants of a house don't want tradesman in the house.
 
I know this was a long time ago [circa 195-7] but one house I looked at with a view to purchasing had a fuse box with 3 fuses, described as one for each floor!
In a cupboard was a junction box, 2 thick T&E of 7/0.044 sort of size a single ceramic fuse holder and a thinner T&E. I asked "Oh that one is for such and such." and the thick cable continued into the loft [adjacent to 1st floor] where there were a couple more fuses.
Had I not opened the cupboard or loft doors I'd have not known what crap was there.
Added to that he 'knew a surveyor who would do it cheap for me'.
I asked to see the intake, behind furniture and a load of miscelaneous boxes was wooden panellingwith a hole just big enough to be able to read the meter, about a dozen screws revealed head, meter and several big T&E's directly into the meter.

I got to wondering what his plumbing and carpentry was really like too.

I didn't walk, I ran.
 
I know this was a long time ago [circa 195-7] but one house I looked at with a view to purchasing had a fuse box with 3 fuses, described as one for each floor!
The house I was brought up in, during the 50s and 60s, did not have a ('multi') 'fuse box' at all. Initially is just had a couple of cast-iron 'switch-fuses', one for ('the') lighting circuit and the other for ('the') sockets circuit - but a third (I think steel, rather than cast-iron) one was added when we eventually acquired an immersion heater to supplement the coal-fired water heating :)

Kind Regards, John
 
Ditto house CI Box wit L&N 30 wire fuses fed a wooden box with 6 ceramic fuseholders on a busbar to feed the 5x 15A sockets. Another CI box with 4x 5A fuses fed the 2 lighting circuits. Downstairs lights also supplied 2x 5A sockets [only socket in kitchen and 2nd socket in lounge].
Built 1951 all wiring in rubber/cotton singles in split tube all SL's being green.

Despite lots of changes over the years, all accessories changed very quickly, fusebox changes mid 70's, additional sockets, lights and light switches, power to shed and garage etc. The rubber wires weren't replaced until late 90's or early 00's.
 

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