Hive Controller wiring for Firebird 50/90

brendangrant · 14 Jan 2021

Hi,

I need help identifying wires from my old firebird boiler. I only ever turn the boiler on or off and always have it on HW/CWW so a simple control on the power switch for the boiler would be enough for me.
- I have the live,neutral and earth coming in from breaker.
-white wire from permanent live marked D1 going up into control panel
- neutral going to terminal block number 4- jumpered up to control and also going to pump

Terminal Block
1. 2 white wires- jumpered at other end with number 2
2. red wire...jumpered with number 1 at other end
3. red wire...other end is live gong to the pump
4. neutral from mains and shared netrual...going to neutral the pump
5. Earth wire

If anyone could shed some light on how to wire up the hive controller to would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

CBW · 14 Jan 2021

What existing controls do you have?

brendangrant · 14 Jan 2021

Just what is on the panel of the boiler switches

On/off
timer/24hrs (timer clock not working)
HW/HWCH

No external thermostats or controls

Thanks

winston1 · 15 Jan 2021

brendangrant said:
Hi,

I need help identifying wires from my old firebird boiler. I only ever turn the boiler on or off and always have it on HW/CWW so a simple control on the power switch for the boiler would be enough for me.
- I have the live,neutral and earth coming in from breaker.
-white wire from permanent live marked D1 going up into control panel
- neutral going to terminal block number 4- jumpered up to control and also going to pump

Terminal Block
1. 2 white wires- jumpered at other end with number 2
2. red wire...jumpered with number 1 at other end
3. red wire...other end is live gong to the pump
4. neutral from mains and shared netrual...going to neutral the pump
5. Earth wire

If anyone could shed some light on how to wire up the hive controller to would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

DIY electrics is not allowed in Ireland. Penalties are severe.

RF Lighting · 15 Jan 2021

Please ignore winston’s post above. He’s telling lies again.

ericmark · 15 Jan 2021

I have looked for installation instructions, but can't find your model, I would guess C Plan, so would guess there will be a wire to boiler and a wire to pump so Hive can select boiler only or boiler and pump.

I am sure at the boiler one could work out how to replace the built in timer and selector, but unless you can find the instructions I can't see how some one remote can help you.

ericmark · 15 Jan 2021

Found this

but there does not seem to be any connection to a pump, I would expect the connector shown in your pictures goes to the pump, but this digram shows connector 1 - 6 but your photo shows 5 connectors only. So still not the right wiring diagram.

brendangrant · 15 Jan 2021

ericmark said:
I have looked for installation instructions, but can't find your model, I would guess C Plan, so would guess there will be a wire to boiler and a wire to pump so Hive can select boiler only or boiler and pump.

I am sure at the boiler one could work out how to replace the built in timer and selector, but unless you can find the instructions I can't see how some one remote can help you.

Thanks for that, As its an old system and no labelling on the wires i think my best option is to use the hive to switch the mains on/off and control the hw/ch &hw through the existing controls(i never heat the water only anyway)
If I flip the existing timer switch to 24hrs (constantly on) it will bypas the existing
Timer clock.
My system does not have any motorised valves or external thermostat so the only control I have is on/off for the boiler.

Can someone confirm can i wire hive reciever into the boiler supply and jumper out the timer and hot water only switches on the receiver...

winston1 · 15 Jan 2021

RF Lighting said:
Please ignore winston’s post above. He’s telling lies again.

DON"T EVER TELL ANYONE TO IGNORE ME OR ANYONE ELSE. I NEVER LIE.

OP there are very strict rules in Ireland regarding DIY electrics. There are very heavy penalties for ignoring them including prison terms.

BS3036 · 15 Jan 2021

For the record, and to balance winston1's 'fake news' here are the facts.

Definition of Restricted Electrical Works

As set out in Statutory Instruments, S.I. No. 264 of 2013, Restricted Electrical Works are:

the installation, commissioning, inspection and testing of a new Electrical Installation which is fixed, fastened or mounted or otherwise secured so that its position does not change and requires connection or re-connection to the distribution network or the transmission network, as the case may be;
the modification, installation or replacement of a Distribution Board including customer tails on either side of the Main Protective Device or of an Electrical Installation in any of the special locations listed in Part 7 of the National Rules for Electrical Installations, as the case may be;
the installation or replacement of one or more circuits in an Electrical Installation, including the installation of one or more additional protective devices for such circuits on a Distribution Board; or
the inspection, testing or certification of, or reporting on, existing Electrical Installations covered by Chapter 62 of the National Rules for Electrical Installations;

in a Domestic Property.

ericmark · 15 Jan 2021

I suspect hive will connect here.

I suspect the three cables to right go to pump, and two to left turn the boiler on/off.

So I would suspect the bottom brown will need taking out and will go to 3 on hive, the blue clearly neutral and the green yellow clearly earth, the two wires to the left will need the link removing and testing to see which is line, and line will go to live (miss named on hive instructions) and the other to 4 on hive.

However there is a lot of guess work, which needs confirming first. So does that cable to right go to pump as I suspect? and is one of the wires on the loop permanent line?

Many oil boilers do simply switch on/off, but not all, and in some cases turning off power can over heat them. I have guessed C Plan, that means when boiler stops it can cool by heating the domestic hot water (DHW) which can't be turned off. This cooling I am told is required and is why many oil boilers are plumbed as C, Y Plan with the latter default is DHW so it can thermo syphon through the pump even when switched off.

Remember I am guessing, it is down to you to work out if my guess is correct.

Taylortwocities · 15 Jan 2021

winston1 said:
DON"T EVER TELL ANYONE TO IGNORE ME OR ANYONE ELSE. I NEVER LIE.

OP there are very strict rules in Ireland regarding DIY electrics. There are very heavy penalties for ignoring them including prison terms.

@winston1
The works discussed here appear not to be restricted under the legislation in ROI. As @BS3036 has kindly illustrated.

It may be that you have some additional information that others are missing (I can't see it). I would like to be educated on this (you like to do that).

Now you have read the legislation, and to give you an opportunity to clarify, please can you indicate which part of the legislation restricts the OP from fitting a Hive to his Firebird. Or apologise and retract your post.

ericmark · 15 Jan 2021

Never mind the have a go at @winston1 what about helping the guy out.
I suspect the wiring will be some thing like this

However would like confirmation that the cable is going to pump, and that 1 and 2 are the right way around.

The idea is simple ignore people who are not helpful. Don't turn it into a slanging match.

SUNRAY · 15 Jan 2021

I'm thinking I've worked on something from this range and the control panel hinges on one side, maybe a couple of screws on the right side and hinge on the left. Take great care as you hinge it out as the thermostat capilliary may not be free. a decent pic of the rear of the panel should clarify the wiring of that connector.

Sorry in advance if I have the wrong model.

brendangrant · 15 Jan 2021

Thank you for your detailed and helpful response ericmark. I can confirm neither number 1 not number 3 are permanent live, and you are correct 3,4 and 5 are going to pump.
In the configuration above the hive will power and a respond to the thermostat controls,however it will not switch the boiler.
However if I connect the permanent live into the fused live I can switch the boiler using the thermostat stat

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Hive Controller wiring for Firebird 50/90

brendangrant

Attachments

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