13A socket as EV charger

Hello,

My house was provided with a regular single gang socket directly attached below the CU presumably as the 'EV charging point' listed in the sales info and planning permission etc. CU is located in the garage, next to where you would store a car and you could feasibly reach outside to the drive also from that socket.

It's connected with a length of about 60mm 6mm T+E to a 32A MCB labeled "car charger" which is on a grouped RCD with the rest of downstairs.

My question does this regular socket require a different earthing or RCD arrangement if it's going to be used to charge a EV?

This could be a very interesting question as the charge point is within the equipotential zone whereas the car will be outside of it.

Do you know what kind of earthing the house has? If not post a picture of the cut out (suppliers box next to the main consumer unit). I will be interested to hear what the pros say.

There is a simple solution which is to fit one of the new charge points such as a Zappi which have appropriate RCD and broken PEN detection built in. Then I believe no change should be required. My company has moved to only fitting chargers with integral RCD and broken PEN detection specifically for this reason.

Yes I know it could be interesting!

The house is modern TN-C-S and has its lovely PME sticker.

The contractor has not been too helpful and suggested it was a "general use" circuit - which I think is at odd with what should be there.

But my primary concern at the moment is using it at all safely for charging my EV on the drive.

Swwils said:

My question does this regular socket require a different earthing or RCD arrangement if it's going to be used to charge a EV?

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It needs to be removed and replaced with a charge point.

A standard 13A socket is entirely inappropriate for EV charging.

As said interesting question. You can get chargers that will run from a 13 amp socket, but charge rate would be rather slow, likely work for me as a 70 year old who uses car once a week for a 2 mile trip, but in the main looking at much higher charge rate.

There are chargers that can be supplied from type A RCD's but one has to be careful.

And the same applies to earthing arrangement, it depends on the set up.

To fit charge points electricians have special training, mainly due to earthing, we caravans and boats TN-C-S is not permitted, this clearly will not work with car charging.

I guess the builders thought they were helpful fitting the cable for you. A 13A socket to make use of the cable.
But in reality you need to start again.
A 13A socket will take ages to charge a car. And even if it’s a city car, not a long term solution.

As said, fit a Zappi. It’s not going to be cheap but maybe the grant applies?

Swwils said:

Hello,

My house was provided with a regular single gang socket directly attached below the CU presumably as the 'EV charging point' listed in the sales info and planning permission etc. CU is located in the garage, next to where you would store a car and you could feasibly reach outside to the drive also from that socket.

It's connected with a length of about 60mm 6mm T+E to a 32A MCB labeled "car charger" which is on a grouped RCD with the rest of downstairs.

My question does this regular socket require a different earthing or RCD arrangement if it's going to be used to charge a EV?

Click to expand...

That is not an EV charging point, it is a 13a socket in the garage. I would be getting on to my solicitors and asking for a real EV charging point to be fitted at the sellers expense.

What is an EV? I have a mobility scooter and ebike and they are electric vehicles, and it does not say electric vehicle anyway, it says car charger, and I have my cars on charge on a regular basis two diesel engines and one petrol, a Pod Point charger would allow up to 6 kW charging from a single phase 32 amp supply, a car can have a 75 kWh battery, so 12.5 hours to recharge at 6 kW, or at 3 kW (13 amp socket) 25 hours, one would hope the car is not crawling into the charging bay every day with a completely discharged battery, looking at Tesla S75D figures 0.33 kWh per mile, so 12 hour charge means around 100 miles per day with a 13 amp supply, will unlikely maintain the 3 kW over whole 12 hours, so that would be stretching it a bit, I know the milkman with a long wheel base Renault Kangoo van and a 64 mile round, would fail to get home a few times a year, it had 100 miles range so it should have worked in theory, but in practice it did not make it, and this is the problem, you can't simply call into a garage and top up with energy. So he had a stand-by vehicle.

My car may say 50 miles per gallon, but only on a good day, and you can't expect an electric car to be any different, the milkman's round is some 20 miles from his home, and he says 70% of battery used to and from his round, the gauge hardly drops while on his round, and at 20 MPH he could get home, but police stopped him for not making normal progress.

I would have thought a small solar panel on roof, so if you can't get home, you can leave car and collect next day. I suppose this is what self charging means? I have seen the adverts, but the roof does not seem to be solar panel to me. Next they will be selling Hybrids as having built in energy converter?

Swwils said:

My house was provided with a regular single gang socket directly attached below the CU presumably as the 'EV charging point' listed in the sales info and planning permission etc.

Click to expand...

So the planning permission requires that they provide a car charging point, but they actually just fit a regular socket in the garage.

Is it a new-build? I’d tell them to come back and fit an actual charging point, if that is what is required for PP and paid for.

AndyPRK said:

A 13A socket will take ages to charge a car. And even if it’s a city car, not a long term solution.

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Only if it's fully discharged. Many people with short commutes/school runs will only use a small proportion of the battery capacity on a daily basis, easily recouped overnight on a 13A socket. I ran my Ampera, bought March 2012 (a REEV, 10kWh capacity, 35-40 miles battery range), for 4 years charging overnight from a 13A socket (4.5hrs) before I had a type 1 charger installed. At 16A, the type 1 charger is marginally quicker to charge, but in overnight terms makes no difference at all.

endecotp said:

So the planning permission requires that they provide a car charging point, but they actually just fit a regular socket in the garage.

Is it a new-build? I’d tell them to come back and fit an actual charging point, if that is what is required for PP and paid for.

Click to expand...

Would it not be down to the LABC inspector to say if that satisfies what is required for in the planning permission? If the completion certificate has been issued, can't see how the LABC inspector, or any court can then ask the builder to change it?

When errors have been made in the past, houses built too low so flood etc. There have been court cases, and there have been agreements between LABC and builders on how to correct the error, but as to what is considered as a charging point I would say once the completion certificate is issued, they can hardly change their mind. There is after all a charging point, even if not a good charging point.

Personally after seeing Richard Harmon's crash and how the car went back on five numerous times after being put out, I would not want an electric car on charge inside a house. For caravan and motor homes it is should be not less than 5 metres between units, 3.5 metres at the corners. And I would say the same should apply to cars on charge.

I have only seen one vehicle go on fire while stored inside a building, this was on the Falklands and the Landrover based Fire engine went on Fire. Lucky the people in the building knew what to do, so not too much damage, it was an electrical fire and the battery was not that big, but electric vehicles have much bigger batteries, so any fire will be many times worse.

I wonder what ceiling and walls are required for a garage with an electric car inside to stop spread of fire?

ericmark said:

Would it not be down to the LABC inspector to say if that satisfies what is required for in the planning permission? If the completion certificate has been issued, can't see how the LABC inspector, or any court can then ask the builder to change it?

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I wouldn't have thought so. The LABC inspector, and the LABC's completion certificate, only relate to compliance with the Building Regulations, and that is a totally different matter from what may have been 'required' by the Planning Permission.

In other words, if the socket in question has been installed satisfactorily (in accordance with Building Regs - which, in practice, usually means compliant with BS7671), then I can't see how the LABC can fail to 'accept'/'pass' it - even if it does not satisfy the requirements of the Planning Consent.

Kind Regards, John

Mothers wet room had an opening window, and the building regulations say if you have an opening window you don't require an extractor fan, but the LABC inspector insisted as he said you could see into the wet room from outside if window was open. So it seems they can insist on things being done even if not required by regulations.

ericmark said:

Mothers wet room had an opening window, and the building regulations say if you have an opening window you don't require an extractor fan, but the LABC inspector insisted as he said you could see into the wet room from outside if window was open. So it seems they can insist on things being done even if not required by regulations.

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Well, if one could bear the hassle, one could attempt to challenge such 'requirements' imposed by LABC inspectors - but that's got absolutely nothing to do with any requirements imposed by Planning Permission.

Kind Regards, John

If you buy a new house you will have a contract which describes what you are buying. That will define what the deliverables are, and is the tool to use to contest was actually received.