Boxing in gas pipe

whenisayjump · 19 Feb 2021

Hello,

We've just moved into a new placed that's a mild fixer upper and it transpires we need a new boiler.

For reasons known only to gas engineers we need a new gas pipe which will run up one of our living room walls, which is obviously visually not ideal.

However, I understand I will be able to box it in but can anyone advise if I would need ventilation as it is going into the upstairs floor space?

muggles · 19 Feb 2021

Depends on the size of the boxing

fixitflav · 19 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Hello,

We've just moved into a new placed that's a mild fixer upper and it transpires we need a new boiler.

For reasons known only to gas engineers we need a new gas pipe which will run up one of our living room walls, which is obviously visually not ideal.

However, I understand I will be able to box it in but can anyone advise if I would need ventilation as it is going into the upstairs floor space?

By "new" presumably you mean bigger. Why is that? Will the new boiler be a combi, which would likely need a bigger gas pipe. If so, are you sure that's the best choice, rather than replace like with like?

whenisayjump · 19 Feb 2021

Yes, that's right. It's for a combi. Currently, we have a gravity-fed system which just seems a bit cak.

Harry Bloomfield · 19 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
For reasons known only to gas engineers we need a new gas pipe which will run up one of our living room walls, which is obviously visually not ideal.

A combi often needs a larger gas supply pipe, but might you be better keeping the system you already have, without need for a new larger pipe?

MeldrewsMate · 19 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Yes, that's right. It's for a combi. Currently, we have a gravity-fed system which just seems a bit cak.

Cak may also apply to the quality of hot water supply if you haven't selected carefully.
Have you considered upgrading your cold water supply? Easier and cheaper now that when you find the water flow isn't great...that's why old houses have these buffer stores of water in the loft; the buffer store that you're about to remove.

Harry Bloomfield · 19 Feb 2021

MeldrewsMate said:
Cak may also apply to the quality of hot water supply if you haven't selected carefully.
Have you considered upgrading your cold water supply? Easier and cheaper now that when you find the water flow isn't great...that's why old houses have these buffer stores of water in the loft; the buffer store that you're about to remove.

The buffers stores in the loft, were not just applicable where flow was low, they were fitted to allow open vented heating systems systems and immersion heated hot water systems, pre-pressurised hot cylinders.

whenisayjump · 19 Feb 2021

I think our flow is reasonable (about 12l in 40 seconds) from the outside tap. My understanding was that it wasn’t good enough pressure for an un-vented cylinder, but okay for a combi. We only have one bathroom so we’re not that concerned about concurrent connections and stuff. It’s all quite confusing!

Thanks for everyone’s thoughts

fixitflav · 20 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Yes, that's right. It's for a combi. Currently, we have a gravity-fed system which just seems a bit cak.

Just put of curiosity - was it your idea to go for a combi, or did the gas engineer suggest it?

whenisayjump · 20 Feb 2021

fixitflav said:
Just put of curiosity - was it your idea to go for a combi, or did the gas engineer suggest it?

Um, the gas engineer did suggest it. However, we’ve both grown up with combis in our parents houses so they seem to make sense to us (the idea of a big tank of water above us in the roof does make me feel a little nervous...) I suppose there’s also the benefit of extra space being freed up (although, that’s not a major factor).

Combis seem to be the go-to for the big brands (such as BG) I’m not sure why? Perhaps the profit margins are bigger.

Thanks,
James

bernardgreen · 20 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Perhaps the profit margins are bigger.

That is one motivation.

The tank of hot water does offer the option to have an immersion heater to provide hot water when the the complex combi boiler stops working.

Harry Bloomfield · 20 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Um, the gas engineer did suggest it. However, we’ve both grown up with combis in our parents houses so they seem to make sense to us (the idea of a big tank of water above us in the roof does make me feel a little nervous...) I suppose there’s also the benefit of extra space being freed up (although, that’s not a major factor).

No reason to be nervous, if the tank is in good condition and the advantages are many. Once it's gone, it would be very expensive to restore it to open vented, so think carefully before commiting.

Combis are a good solution for homes where space is desperately limited, or where the occupants are often out for long periods. They are generally more expensive to run, if your home is usually occupied most of the time. They Kw rating needs to be over-sized enough to cope with heating water on the fly, so for central heating they can be less efficient. Everytime you draw a pint of hot water, the combi has to fire up to heat that water, causing extra wear.

An open vented boiler can be sized appropriately to meet the central heating needs, with heating water in a cylinder a secondary consideration.

My last two boilers, the boiler installers have tried hard to have me accept a combi.

denso13 · 20 Feb 2021

On the other hand I have a relatively small, and old, combi in a fairly large house and it is more than adequate. Nothing wrong with a properly sized/installed combi if that is what you want.

Bodd · 20 Feb 2021

Agreed . If you have room stick with cylinder. I'd rather unvented. With Secondary return.

If you have combi it's good to have an electric shower.

fixitflav · 20 Feb 2021

whenisayjump said:
Um, the gas engineer did suggest it. However, we’ve both grown up with combis in our parents houses so they seem to make sense to us (the idea of a big tank of water above us in the roof does make me feel a little nervous...) I suppose there’s also the benefit of extra space being freed up (although, that’s not a major factor).

Combis seem to be the go-to for the big brands (such as BG) I’m not sure why? Perhaps the profit margins are bigger.

Thanks,
James

To add to what others have said, a friend of mine runs a gas company and he wouldn’t have a combi in his own house. He gets most of his guys’ work from combi callouts. Having said that, no doubt there are circs when a combi is a good choice, but I suspect plenty are installed when it isn’t.

Maybe a tankful of hot water in the roof space might be a worry, but not much of an issue with a cold storage tank.

You haven’t said what your current system is, but if it’s conventional fully-pumped open vented, what’s wrong with a straight boiler change? I’d add a magnetic filter while you’re at it.

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Boxing in gas pipe

Bodd

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