New boiler condensate pipe, lockout

Hi, just had a new Worcester 2000 condensing combi put in my old ground-floor flat replacing an old non-condensing combi. Within a few days I started getting errors up (227, 2951) relating the installer thinks to the condensate. The flue outside was gurgling away and no ignition.

They plumbed the condensate pipe under the floor and outside into the waste pipe (drop of a few feet, couple of meters long), but the drains here are not the best. He said I could try disconnecting pipe from the boiler and blowing down it in case it were air stuck inside due to heavy rain. I wiggled it a bit and could hear water being released down the pipe allowing the boiler to get into ][ 30-minute refill mode. But the next day after a bit went into lockout again. I was worried it might backfill up the pipe toward the boiler.

However looking under the floor myself and feel like he's made an a*** of the pipe out. To get it under the floor joists (7" below the floor) it goes down to about 11" lowest point, but the vent it's going through outside is only max 5" under. So it has to go uphill about 6"? I don't think that's ever going to work by gravity, is it?

Initially he'd tried going through the stone wall straight out but gave up because his bits all broke. I'll be getting him back out to look, but interested in some confirmation of what I'm saying.

I've no knowledge of air-breaks either, but from the installation manual it seems to suggest you want a small pipe into a big pipe outside rather than just straight into the drainpipe? Does that mean just a tight join between them, or a gap for air to escape? https://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/p...pipe-is-terminated-into-a-rainwater-downspout
I'm guessing that might be different if he gets through the wall instead, as it'll be horizontal into the drainpipe rather than down to the waste pipe as is.

Cheers if you read all that

I didn't read this all. But I had a similar one today my mate went to, it was a blocked condense. Its mild hear (almost tropical) so not frozen, could your be frozen. if not food waste?

It looks a very poor job done of the condense, is the pipe its going into in use?

Just to add the condense if going into a cast pipe or any melt should have a neutraliser in-line. or better still taken into a condense pit buried in the ground with lime chipping's.

CORRECTION

Going up hill does create a problem. It creates a double trap.

An air tight connection into the drains is not good as any air pressure changes in the sewers ( as when a toilet is flushed ) will affect the boiler.

An air break between condensate pipe and drain will prevent pressure changes affecting the boiler but will allow sewer gases to vent
.

condensatory said:

The flue outside was gurgling away and no ignition.

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Gurgling flue suggests water ( condensate ) is accumulating in the flue. Is there a long section of vertical flue. ?

Going up hill is not right. I would get them back to do it properly

bernardgreen said:

Going "uphill" is not a problem other than the pipe marked red will always be filled with water.

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Id say thats a problem...... Its a bloody shabby job..... Op has paid good money he should get them back to correct.

Bodd said:

Its a bloody shabby job

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I totally agree with that.

Aha, I see how it could potentially pump out for a while then, but maybe trap air? In the manual it doesn't even want it to run flat however, never mind incline. They had it running fine for a few hours during install, and likewise it was error-free for the next day, but began churning and locking out next morning.

The flue is horizontal, it is an extended one but only maybe 70cm? I believe they intended to go right outside through the stone but gave up since it was too tough, thanks for the responses.

edit: the pipe it's going into currently is from the sink/toilet, not a drainpipe.

That installation is completely wrong for your boiler will have to be changed immediately, your installer has not read the Manus instructions for that boiler

1. It is a requirement that the condensate drain is installed internally. 2. If external disposal is the only means of condensate discharge, then the CondenseSure siphon or a condensate pump must be installed

I would ask the qualified plumbers(I'm not one) on this forum is the plastic pipe even connected to the metal one, looks like its resting on top of the metal one. You need to zoom right in, I might be wrong.

ianmcd said:

That installation is completely wrong for your boiler will have to be changed immediately, your installer has not read the Manus instructions for that boiler

1. It is a requirement that the condensate drain is installed internally. 2. If external disposal is the only means of condensate discharge, then the CondenseSure siphon or a condensate pump must be installed

Click to expand...

Id be inclined to run into a pit. Looks like if condense is run internally it will still be taken via the cast. The CondenseSure does it neutralise? not used them before.

Never used pump as I think then the boiler is only as good as the pump. Pump fails boiler fails.

The pipe is connected into the cast-iron one tightly, but I'm not sure that's correct either. The book shows an "air-break" connection with a smaller pipe into a larger bend before joining, not clear to me if it's to let gases or condensate escape if drain becomes backed up? https://i.imgur.com/lA0tVKU.png

I'm fairly sure he never read the manual either, and a bit concerned about the "Failure to include an external air break may result in severe damage to the appliance and may invalidate the guarantee".

I would've been happy to use a pit to be honest, it's just waste ground in the corner. I've plenty to go back to him about in any case, thanks for the help.

bernardgreen said:

Going "uphill" is not a problem other than the pipe marked red will always be filled with water. When the boiler puts more condensate into the pipe then water will over flow out at the far end.

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Yes it is a problem. It means the appliance is double trapped and the boiler trap will airlock and the condensate will back up into the boiler

Bodd said:

Id be inclined to run into a pit. Looks like if condense is run internally it will still be taken via the cast. The CondenseSure does it neutralise? not used them before.

Never used pump as I think then the boiler is only as good as the pump. Pump fails boiler fails.

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The WB200 has specific requirements for condensate discharge, they must be followed, the rest of the rangecan be installed as normal but the 2000 can not be run outside without a pump, the condensure is a condensate pump made by WB and fits straight onto the boiler, WB will void any warranty if a condensate pump is not used and it has an external run

Razor900 said:

double trapped and the boiler trap will airlock

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I will think about that using basic laws of science

ianmcd said:

The WB200 has specific requirements for condensate discharge, they must be followed, the rest of the rangecan be installed as normal but the 2000 can not be run outside without a pump, the condensure is a condensate pump made by WB and fits straight onto the boiler, WB will void any warranty if a condensate pump is not used and it has an external run

Click to expand...

Fair doo's. I don't fit Worcester now or for a long time is the 2000 a floor mounted boiler?