Smart mcb?

lightbeing · 16 Mar 2021

Hi there,

I have a requirement to switch the supply of a single ring final circuit in my house off on a daily basis in my home. For this I would like to use a smart circuit breaker so that this can be done easily through wifi, Alexa, etc., without having to go to my consumer unit.

Would I be able to get an electrician to install this in my home consumer unit? I can see few wifi circuit breakers that are available on Amazon possibly made in china, they seem to have the CE mark.
Here is one for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B088LNJ6Q5/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_6ZVSFFZ1DND4FPA93QYB
Is this approach reasonable? Do you know or can you recommend an approved smart mcb that is from a reputable make and available here in the uk.

Many thanks for your help.
Al

RF Lighting · 16 Mar 2021

I don’t see any BS or EN markings on that device so it is not suitable for use as a circuit breaker in a UK installation.

I guess you could have it installed after a proper circuit breaker in a separate enclosure adjacent to your consumer unit if you desired.

JohnW2 · 16 Mar 2021

RF Lighting said:
I don’t see any BS or EN markings on that device so it is not suitable for use as a circuit breaker in a UK installation.

I agree we can't see any markings on it in the photos provided, but ...

Kind Regards, John

RF Lighting · 16 Mar 2021

Aah I missed that. I’m still not sure if I believe them though...

JohnW2 · 16 Mar 2021

RF Lighting said:
Aah I missed that. I’m still not sure if I believe them though...

Same here. I don't think I would personally trust it but, as you've said, there's no reason why it could not be installed (in a separate enclosure if necessary) downstream of a 'proper' ('trusted') MCB.

However, having said that, if it were going to be installed downstream of an MCB, it would not need to be an MCB itself, and I imagine that there must be plenty of high-current WiFi-operated switches around, aren't there?

Kind Regards, John

ericmark · 16 Mar 2021

A consumer unit is a type tested distribution board, to be type tested all the units that can fit in the board have to be type tested with the board, so in real terms that means all that fits in the board is manufactured by the same manufacturer. This is important as there may be a slight difference in the distance from the din rail to the bus bar, so a Wilex consumer unit only has items made by Wilex etc.

Also in the UK our consumer units in the main take single width MCB's, some European countries used double width, but in the main the type tested boards in the UK are limited to 125 amp (normally 100 amp) and single phase with single width MCB's.

However you can get wifi relays, SONOFF seems to be popular, I use Energenie, in the main 13 amp sockets, however wifi is not as good as it first seems, I have needed to re-boot sockets and lights switches, and although I have one which switches and monitors most simply switch with no feed back as to when on or off.

So although I have a number of wifi sockets, only the monitor one is used for my AC as I can't be sure if others are on or off remotely. For non essential great, turning on outside lights, or display cabinet lights, i.e. some think which if either on when should be off or off when should be on it does not matter.

So this unit costs £37 plus you need hub at another £40 so gets rather expensive.

RF Lighting · 16 Mar 2021

JohnW2 said:
Same here. I don't think I would personally trust it but, as you've said, there's no reason why it could not be installed (in a separate enclosure if necessary) downstream of a 'proper' ('trusted') MCB.

However, having said that, if it were going to be installed downstream of an MCB, it would not need to be an MCB itself, and I imagine that there must be plenty of high-current WiFi-operated switches around, aren't there?

Kind Regards, John

Yes I agree with you and I would imagine there will be high current rated WiFi switches and contactors available, but it’s not something I’ve ever really had much involvement with so I don’t know quite what is out there!

JohnW2 · 16 Mar 2021

RF Lighting said:
Yes I agree with you and I would imagine there will be high current rated WiFi switches and contactors available, but it’s not something I’ve ever really had much involvement with so I don’t know quite what is out there!

Same here - I'm a great believer in manual switches

Eric seems to be somewhat of a connoisseur of such things and, as you will see, has shown his face.

In fact, is there not, in fact, a 'Home Automation' (or somesuch) DIYnot forum where the OP might find some useful input?

Kind Regards, john

bernardgreen · 16 Mar 2021

which could mean that it switches OFF on overload and then switches back ON while the fault causing the overload is still there.

Does it then cycle OFF ON OFF ON... until the fault is cleared ?.

In my opinion this device should not be used,

oldbutnotdead · 16 Mar 2021

Low odds you'll find anything that will fit properly in your CU.. You need a high current relay (contacts rated 32A or greater) with a 240v coil and a Sonoff or similar wifi switch.

lightbeing · 16 Mar 2021

ericmark said:
So this unit costs £37 plus you need hub at another £40 so gets rather expensive.

I don’t believe you would need a new hub as it should connect to the existing house WiFi router.
Regards

lightbeing · 16 Mar 2021

bernardgreen said:
View attachment 226851

which could mean that it switches OFF on overload and then switches back ON while the fault causing the overload is still there.

Does it then cycle OFF ON OFF ON... until the fault is cleared ?.

In my opinion this device should not be used,

Thank you for this, but if it gets installed just before a suitable say 32A mcb then there wouldn’t be concern as the mcb after it would have tripped the faulty circuit mitigating the overload risk.
Regards

bernardgreen · 16 Mar 2021

lightbeing said:
just before a suitable say 32A mcb then there wouldn’t be concern as the mcb after it would have tripped the faulty circuit mitigating the overload risk.

Not necessarily true, the "smart" device could trip on 33 Amp and start the OFF ON OFF ON cycle while the normal MCB will not trip unless the overload current is several times 32 Amp.

To be blunt many of these "smart" devices rely on marketing to convince people to buy gimmicks and things for the sake of appearing to have a "smart" home.

ericmark · 16 Mar 2021

lightbeing said:
I don’t believe you would need a new hub as it should connect to the existing house WiFi router.
Regards

Since this is the make I am using, I can say yes you need the hub to connect anything to a PC, Phone, or internet. There are some in the range like the light switches and sockets that can connect to a remote control without using the hub, but they don't report if switched on or off, all you know is you asked it to switch on or off, not if it actually responded.

As to overload combined with switching, there was an auto resetting RCD, likely you can still get them, it tested for earth leakage before resetting so should have been reasonable safe, but although could be used 2008 I am told since I have not got the latest edition of wiring regulations that they are not allowed with domestic installations, only permitted in commercial for specials like remote pumping stations.

The MCB is IEC60898-1 which is a domestic rated MCB, but internet hunt for an eMylo consumer unit gets no hits, and at 63 amp there is very little use for a MCB so large in domestic installations so in real terms it is simply a wifi relay and would need mounting in its own enclosure, which if plastic would not comply with regulations and if metal would be a faraday cage so would not work.

mic2876uk · 16 Mar 2021

wouldn't it be safer to use a good quality contactor to switch the high current load on and off then use a wifi relay to switch on the ~1w load of the contactor. rather than trusting something of amazon to switch 32+ amps

such as this
https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...CwieupsLN0c34T9EswwaAr2xEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

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Smart mcb?

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