EICR unsatisfactory, am I being ripped off?

Marcin K · 21 Mar 2021

Hi all,
My 2-bed flat build in 1989 just had an unsatisfactory EICR. It doesn't seem the previous owner has made any upgrades to electrical wiring so the majority of it is most likely quite old. The electrician was recommended by the lettings agency and seems to be fairly new to the market.

EICR failed based on 5 C2 and 2 FI. Now the electrician is offering to do an additional (paid) investigation and provide a quote on the C2 items. I find it suspicious, why wouldn't he investigate when he was there doing the EICR?

Am I being ripped off here? Should I get a new EICR or is it better for another electrician to quote repairs based on the current EICR? Any estiamtion on the cost?

I'm attaching screenshots of the current EICR.

JohnW2 · 21 Mar 2021

Marcin K said:
EICR failed based on 5 C2 and 2 FI. Now the electrician is offering to do an additional (paid) investigation and provide a quote on the C2 items. I find it suspicious, why wouldn't he investigate when he was there doing the EICR?

The five C2 items should not require any further 'investigation', so he should be able to quote for remedial work on those without the need to do anything else.

The two F1s (particularly item 12) do need further investigation before the cause can be determined, hence the necessary remedial work ascertained (and quoted for). The EICR seeks only to identify inadequacies that need attention (e.g. abnormal test results, such as he reports) not necessarily to investigate the cause. In most cases (like the C2s), the nature of the problem (and required remedial work) will be obvious from the inspection, but in the case of 'unacceptable' tests results which are currently 'of unknown cause', that is not necessarily the case.

Kind Regards, John

just pumps · 21 Mar 2021

Never trust people recommended by letting agency or estate agents as there is often a brown enverlope involved.

333rocky333 · 21 Mar 2021

I would quess items 1 and 12 could posiibly take half day or more, so i would have thought the initial cost of the Eicr would not cover that amount of extra time

flameport · 21 Mar 2021

None of those items are particularly unexpected for a 30+ year old installation.
Realistically that installation needs a new consumer unit, which will resolve items 2-7 and 10.
The others are probably minor repairs.

There are some errors on that EICR, such as the insulation resistance being identical for all circuits, and not what was stated for the cooker circuit.

Sir-John · 21 Mar 2021

Also 1phase (3 wire)?

JohnW2 · 21 Mar 2021

flameport said:
There are some errors on that EICR, such as the insulation resistance being identical for all circuits, and not what was stated for the cooker circuit.

I can but assume that the (as you say, identical for all circuits) L-E and N-E IR figures were presumably 'whole installation' figures.

To be fair, the note about the cooker circuit says that the L-N (not L-E and/or N-E) IR was <2MΩ - so that in itself is not an inconsistency. However, it raises another question because the L-N IR for all circuits is recorded as "0.00", which makes no sense.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 21 Mar 2021

Sir-John said:
Also 1phase (3 wire)?

Indeed. Per BS7671 terminology "1 phase (3-wire)" refers to an arrangement which (for what it's worth!) I personally have never seen or heard of being used (it looks to me to be two separate, in-phase, 1-phase supplies) ...

Kind Regards, John

studentspark · 21 Mar 2021

10 - C2 (There is a potential danger present and urgent remedial work is required.)

So he is concerned about a lack of an RCD in the bathroom judging by the BS7671 reference.

Thats a C3 I would have thought.

Any note on supplementary bonding in the bathroom

Sir-John · 21 Mar 2021

Single phase 3 wire, often found in rural areas, farms etc. Fed from single centre tapped transformer. Giving two lines + neutral (180 degrees apart) 230/240-460/480 volts.

chivers67 · 21 Mar 2021

I'd expect it to be Two Wire single phase. The Voltages vary on the Insulation Resistance Tests too 500V for the sockets and 250V for everything else 0 Ohms L-N surely that would more likely be 999 or similar?

Sir-John · 21 Mar 2021

Exactly, should have ticked 1 phase (two wire)

conny · 21 Mar 2021

Why has he missed ticking one of the boxes regarding 'Earthing Arrangement(s)?
Straight away my suspicions are raised that maybe, just maybe, this guy doesn't actually know what he is doing or if he does he is not doing it correctly in the hope of getting some 'easy' work.

JohnW2 · 21 Mar 2021

Sir-John said:
Single phase 3 wire, often found in rural areas, farms etc. Fed from single centre tapped transformer. Giving two lines + neutral (180 degrees apart) 230/240-460/480 volts.

No. As you say, that (commonly called 'split phase') is often seen in rural areas etc. and, as you say, has the two lines 180° apart. Despite arguments from many here, BS7671 calls that (the 180° variant of) "2-phase 3-wire"....

However, as I illustrated before, what BS7671 means by "single-phase 3-wire" (which is therefore presumably the convention/definition that should be used on a {"BS7671} EICR) is a situation in which there is 0° between the two line conductors. As I said, it's not an arrangement that I have ever seen or heard of being used - but I suppose (since it'[s in the book) it must be used somewhere! ...

Kind Regards, John

RF Lighting · 21 Mar 2021

just pumps said:
Never trust people recommended by letting agency or estate agents as there is often a brown enverlope involved.

That seems like a rather blanket statement. The EICR presented by the OP seems like a reasonably decent report.

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EICR unsatisfactory, am I being ripped off?

Marcin K

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