Building survey fails to mention 'Wall Bracing and Pattress Plates'

elh · 6 May 2021

This may be the wrong section, or even the wrong forum in which to ask this question. But does anyone have any knowledge if ‘Wall Bracing and Pattress Plates’ should be inspected during a RICs Level 3 Building survey?

I assumed the surveyor would at least comment on or acknowledged their existence as they form part of the structural integrity of the property. However, I can find no mention of this item in any of the current RICs guidance, handbooks or indeed any other document.

I ask because several building surveys I’ve seen fail to mention these supports which I find strange.

wessex101 · 6 May 2021

I would expect to see them mentioned as they are a pretty big red flag that there has been some form of structural movement in the past that required remedial work.

elh · 6 May 2021

wessex101 said:
I would expect to see them mentioned as they are a pretty big red flag that there has been some form of structural movement in the past that required remedial work.

To place them in context, all appear on historic buildings dating to 1800-1840. Many looked to have been fitted around 1900, so well established. But indeed, I'd have thought the same as you, RICs appears to have no stance on the subject.

^woody^ · 6 May 2021

Things only get mentioned if they are relevant or need commenting on i.e. something is wrong with them.

These ties are certainly relevant and if nothing else, should be in the general description of the wall construction.

KenGMac · 6 May 2021

elh said:
‘Wall Bracing and Pattress Plates’ should be inspected

To be honest, I have no idea at all as to how to test these, indeed I cannot recall ever seeing any information on how to test them?

Ken.

charliegolf · 6 May 2021

Can their condition be assessed visually?

KenGMac · 6 May 2021

charliegolf said:
Can their condition be assessed visually

Agree yes, but? I can see no way of assessing the rod that is attached to the external pattress which could have a load of corrosion at the joint of rod to pattress??

Next problem is what is the rod attached to, if anything.

Ken.

clifford1 · 7 May 2021

They sound a bit like keel bolts in an old yacht. These have no reliable means of inspecting them, so they should be extracted periodically and checked and replaced as necessary

^woody^ · 7 May 2021

Floor joists aren't checked, neither are the lateral restraints to walls off joists. Nor foundations. Nor the internal [load bearing] blockwork or timber frame studs.

The point of a survey is to look for evidence of problems, not take the house apart and inspect every single item.

Tigercubrider · 7 May 2021

also - doesn't the nature of the survey matter?
Is this a building society survey that basically guarantees they get their money back if you default, or a major survey paid for by the prospective purchaser?
context is important

wessex101 · 7 May 2021

elh said:
This may be the wrong section, or even the wrong forum in which to ask this question. But does anyone have any knowledge if ‘Wall Bracing and Pattress Plates’ should be inspected during a RICs Level 3 Building survey?

Tigercubrider · 7 May 2021

jeds · 7 May 2021

I used to do these surveys (or one of the previous versions of them) but stopped because of the prescriptive nature. Everything is tick box now and it's frowned upon to step outside the template. And there was too much passing the buck for my liking. If I record dampness I want to describe it and provide information - not tell them to get a damp survey done!

Anyway, the Home Survey Standard for a level 3 survey says the form of construction and materials used for each part of the building should be described in detail. Tie rods are most certainly a principle feature and should have been noted and described but I would not expect any more than that unless there was an apparent defect present.

wessex101 · 7 May 2021

jeds said:
I used to do these surveys (or one of the previous versions of them) but stopped because of the prescriptive nature. Everything is tick box now and it's frowned upon to step outside the template. And there was too much passing the buck for my liking. If I record dampness I want to describe it and provide information - not tell them to get a damp survey done!

Anyway, the Home Survey Standard for a level 3 survey says the form of construction and materials used for each part of the building should be described in detail. Tie rods are most certainly a principle feature and should have been noted and described but I would not expect any more than that unless there was an apparent defect present.

There are no prescriptive requirements for what you put in a RICS survey, just general guidance, so you can include as much or as little detail as you like. You must have been using one of the generic licenced RICS survey formats, RICS Homebuyers Report or the RICS Home Survey. Dreadful things and no decent Building Surveyor should need to use them. However the numpty general practice surveyors that do most of the residential survey work seem to need the idiot proof multiple choice tick sheets.

elh · 7 May 2021

Many good points made in this thread to reflect upon.

A buildings historian I was speaking with was telling me some of these braces were fitted within years of the building being erected or when they went up in height during modification. Often made from wrought iron by the local blacksmith right up until the 1900s. He like me, found it odd these are not even mentioned within surveys, or to be more precise, there is no guidance saying they should be. He's come across several where the threads have stripped and the wall had moved.

Interesting viewpoint @jeds, and I agree, surveys used to say and mean something (the ones I had done in the distant past did). These days they appear to be get out clauses. Perhaps I'm being unfair in that last sentence.

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Building survey fails to mention 'Wall Bracing and Pattress Plates'

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