Sander Advice

Gossamer · 25 Apr 2021

Evening all,
I'm in the market for a new sander for a variety of tasks, so need a good all rounder.
I am refurbishing a house and also run a fledgling property maintenance business, so it would get used for a wide variety of jobs.
In terms of paid work it would mostly be decorating / refurb work, so would need to be good for sanding walls and fillers etc. There are also a few woodworking projects coming up, so a bit of everything really.
Three jump out:

Festool ETS 150/5
Festool ETS 150/5 EC
Mirka Deros
Sealey DAS150PS (Mirka Deros copy).

I recently purchased a Festool CTL Midi and RTS400, so am leaning towards the Festool options for ease / compatabilty, but the Mirka gets rave reviews from decorators.
Of the Festool sanders, I'm currently leaning towards the Festool ETS 150/5 EC, as its lighter than the old ETS, but would welcome peoples views.
Cheers.

Deleted member 174758 · 26 Apr 2021

Compatibility? In terms of vacuums it makes zero difference unless you've bought into that overly complicated Makita Bluetooth link system (technology for the sake of it, expensive, too)

If you are sanding coarse stuff would a Rotex also be worth considering?

opps · 27 Apr 2021

If you were only purchasing one more sander, I would go with the 150mm Rotex. That said, it can be uncomfortable for sanding ceilings because of the weight.

I seldom use the "aggressive" mode, but it does come in useful.

I am a decorator, to date I have the following Festool sanders.

Ro90- handy for thin stock timber. It has the added advantage of doubling up as a small triangular detail sander but it is more difficult to apply the correct pressure compared to their older, and now discontinued, DX93.

DX93- only a triangular detail sander, but as per above, imo, nicer to work with.

LS130- AFAIK, it may be the only linear sander on the market. You can purchase profiled bases or a kit which will allow you to create your own profiles. It is far and away my least used sander.

Ro125- for many years I only used it with an interface pad for sanding primer on MDF.

Ro150- the most used of my sanders, but heavy.

Ro180- a recent purchase and only used couple of times because it is really heavy and rotary only rather than random orbit. That said, if removes stock much faster than my 75mm dewalt belt sander.

RTS400- not sure if you are aware, but you can use the larger delta base with it as well (just undo 4 screws and swap the bases over). The only Festool product that I have found to be unreliable. I have had the same problem with 2 separate models on 3 occasions. They suddenly start running very, very, very slowly. I suspect that the speed control on them is badly designed. I had one repaired by them and after 80(?) hours of use, the problem reoccurred. You may have noticed that when sanding very flat surfaces such as MDF you have to reduce the suction on the dust extractor, if you don't it get "stuck" to the surface.

If the weight is an issue then sure, go for the Deros or ETC. The deros has the advantage of enabling you to use a 125 or 150mm pad. Not sure what the orbit size is though. I am also unsure what size the dust extraction port is and if you need to use an adaptor, will it still maintain the antistatic properties that the ETC will have?

I have some Mirka hand sanders, by default they use a tiny diameter dust connection nozzle. Annoyingly, the adaptor can cost between £10 and £20.

As an aside, I have been impressed by both the Festool and Mirka mesh sand papers (on rotary and hand sanders). I you opt for either brand please do purchase a "pad saver". If you don't the "velcro" on the factory fitted pad will fail. The sacrificial pads deal with the extra heat that would otherwise have been dissipated by the paper backing on the abrasive.

Gossamer · 28 Apr 2021

JobAndKnock said:
Compatibility? In terms of vacuums it makes zero difference unless you've bought into that overly complicated Makita Bluetooth link system (technology for the sake of it, expensive, too)

If you are sanding coarse stuff would a Rotex also be worth considering?

I brought into the Festool dust extraction and sanding thing, so I'm keen (ish) to stay with it if possible.
The weight puts me off the Rotex a bit.

Gossamer · 28 Apr 2021

opps said:
If you were only purchasing one more sander, I would go with the 150mm Rotex. That said, it can be uncomfortable for sanding ceilings because of the weight.

I seldom use the "aggressive" mode, but it does come in useful.

I am a decorator, to date I have the following Festool sanders.

Ro90- handy for thin stock timber. It has the added advantage of doubling up as a small triangular detail sander but it is more difficult to apply the correct pressure compared to their older, and now discontinued, DX93.

DX93- only a triangular detail sander, but as per above, imo, nicer to work with.

LS130- AFAIK, it may be the only linear sander on the market. You can purchase profiled bases or a kit which will allow you to create your own profiles. It is far and away my least used sander.

Ro125- for many years I only used it with an interface pad for sanding primer on MDF.

Ro150- the most used of my sanders, but heavy.

Ro180- a recent purchase and only used couple of times because it is really heavy and rotary only rather than random orbit. That said, if removes stock much faster than my 75mm dewalt belt sander.

RTS400- not sure if you are aware, but you can use the larger delta base with it as well (just undo 4 screws and swap the bases over). The only Festool product that I have found to be unreliable. I have had the same problem with 2 separate models on 3 occasions. They suddenly start running very, very, very slowly. I suspect that the speed control on them is badly designed. I had one repaired by them and after 80(?) hours of use, the problem reoccurred. You may have noticed that when sanding very flat surfaces such as MDF you have to reduce the suction on the dust extractor, if you don't it get "stuck" to the surface.

If the weight is an issue then sure, go for the Deros or ETC. The deros has the advantage of enabling you to use a 125 or 150mm pad. Not sure what the orbit size is though. I am also unsure what size the dust extraction port is and if you need to use an adaptor, will it still maintain the antistatic properties that the ETC will have?

I have some Mirka hand sanders, by default they use a tiny diameter dust connection nozzle. Annoyingly, the adaptor can cost between £10 and £20.

As an aside, I have been impressed by both the Festool and Mirka mesh sand papers (on rotary and hand sanders). I you opt for either brand please do purchase a "pad saver". If you don't the "velcro" on the factory fitted pad will fail. The sacrificial pads deal with the extra heat that would otherwise have been dissipated by the paper backing on the abrasive.

Thanks for the comprehensive response.
I'm leaning towards the ETS 150/5, mainly due to the usual Festool pros and its 350 quid which is more palatable.
I do like the sound of the RO150 but worry about the weight. Is it viable to sand walls for some time with the weight?
I use the Mirka hand sander, I just shove the tapered end into a Henry vac. Abranet is awesome.

opps · 29 Apr 2021

Gossamer said:
Thanks for the comprehensive response.
I'm leaning towards the ETS 150/5, mainly due to the usual Festool pros and its 350 quid which is more palatable.
I do like the sound of the RO150 but worry about the weight. Is it viable to sand walls for some time with the weight?
I use the Mirka hand sander, I just shove the tapered end into a Henry vac. Abranet is awesome.

The Ro150 is my go to sander for walls, I was using it today to sand walls and small sections of a ceiling. In the main, I do tend to use two hands when working with it.

The 150mm Rotex is 2.3kg the ETS150/5 is 1.8kg. Both have a 5mm orbit. I seldom use the "aggressive" mode for sanding paint but I do use it when working on really badly plastered walls- if I were to guess, I would say that in angry mode it sands plaster walls at least 2.5 times faster. That said, you definitely have to use two hands in that mode. I am no Charles Atlas, I don't struggle with it. Paint- the harsh mode tends to overheat paint and clog the abrasives.

Both Festool and Mirka make "saver pads" that will work with which ever 150mm sander you buy. Do not use the festool Granat mesh or Abranet without the saver pads. If you do the heat will eff up the velcro on the pad. The saver pads are 15 times cheaper than the original Festool backing pads.

If MY choice was the ETC vs the Rotex. I might have to sit and think about it. If my choice were the ETS Vs the Rotex, although I have never used the ETS, I would not hesitate to get the Rotex.

Sorry, possibly not the answer you wanted to read. I only use the angry mode once in a blue moon but when I do need to, I am glad that I have the to option.

Chunkytfg · 7 May 2021

I have no comparison as I've gone from a cheap nasty Black and decker RO thing to a Mirka Deros but I absolutely love it.

It's light, not too loud and doesn't vibrate much at all. Plus it really fits lovely in the hand making it comfortable to use for really long periods of time.

I only use it for sanding furniture and plywood so how it would cope with other tasks I do not know but I do say it does the things I need it for exceptionally well.

The Mirka Abranet sanding sheets are lovely and when I finish up all my 3M Centurion ones I'll be swapping across to them permanently. I will say the edges are fragile though so if your sanding around edges once they start to disintegrate they will get shredded fast!.

I use the Mirka proper dust hose connected to a Henry and it works like a charm. Virtually no dust left anywhere.

Best purchase I've made so far since setting up my side venture

opps · 9 May 2021

Chunkytfg said:
The Mirka Abranet sanding sheets are lovely and when I finish up all my 3M Centurion ones I'll be swapping across to them permanently. I will say the edges are fragile though so if your sanding around edges once they start to disintegrate they will get shredded fast!.

I am guessing that you mean the 3M ceramic disks rather than Centurion?

I intend to try them at some point.

Chunkytfg · 9 May 2021

opps said:
I am guessing that you mean the 3M ceramic disks rather than Centurion?

I intend to try them at some point.

ahh my mistake. I meant cubitron.

opps · 9 May 2021

Chunkytfg said:
ahh my mistake. I meant cubitron.

Thanks for the clarification.

I normally use the Festool Granat but occasionally use either the festool granat mesh or Abranet when working with grades finer than 180. Do you find the abranet stays sharper than the cubitron, and if yes, what kinds of grades do you work with?

Chunkytfg · 9 May 2021

I've honestly not spent a lot of time using the abranet as I only got a sample pack with my Deros. I find with what I use them for they disintegrate on the edges long before they run out of abrasiveness. I mainly use 120 - 320 but mostly 180 and 240.

opps · 9 May 2021

Chunkytfg said:
I've honestly not spent a lot of time using the abranet as I only got a sample pack with my Deros. I find with what I use them for they disintegrate on the edges long before they run out of abrasiveness. I mainly use 120 - 320 but mostly 180 and 240.

IIRC, there are two primary types of Abranet- one is more robust than the other. I can't recall which is which though.

Out of interest, does the Deros come supplied with pad savers? The first time I ever used Abranet with my 150mm Rotex, it effed up the "velcro" on the backing pad. I didn't realise that Abranet allows more heat transfer to the pad. £40 for a replacement pad... I now use pad savers.

For me personally, the big advantage of the mesh papers is that I can sand recently painted woodwork sooner without having to worry about clogging (quite so much). I haven't tried the 60-120 grits and suspect that they would be less durable when sanding anything that might otherwise damage the edges of the "paper".

BTW, I have no idea what you are sanding but if you find that you need to sand very large flat areas and do not want to risk "digging in", an interface pad is invaluable. I used to specialise in painting MDF cabinets (mainly bookcases and wardrobes). They were bare MDF. I would apply waterbased primer, knowing that it would raise the grain. I then sanded the flats with 180gr paper but used an interface pad, which is basically an extra inch of "foam". I would sand the primer until the point at which I could see the factory drum sander grooves in the MDF. The interface pads reduced the risk of accidentally gouging the surface, it also helped to reduce vibration.

Here is a link

https://www.mirka.com/accessories/interfaces/

I don't quite understand why mirka sell them as packets of 5. I have Festool interface pads that are 15 years old and are absolutely fine. Perhaps if using Abranet with them, you can extend their lives by using a pad saver as well.

Chunkytfg · 9 May 2021

yes mine came with pad savers for the 150 and the 125mm pads. I've only really used the 125mm so far as that's the size 3M pads I've got.

I will probably get one of those foam things as they seem like they could help a fair bit. thanks.

opps · 9 May 2021

Chunkytfg said:
yes mine came with pad savers for the 150 and the 125mm pads. I've only really used the 125mm so far as that's the size 3M pads I've got.

I will probably get one of those foam things as they seem like they could help a fair bit. thanks.

I have only ever used the interface pads for large flat surfaces when using 180+ grits, that said, You may find that they are not suitable for, for example, square section table legs. Being so soft, they will cut through the corners, in those cases, and extra hard base would be better. When sanding thinner stock material, not only do I use a smaller diameter sander, I also tilt the sander so that I am not hitting the edges and then resort to old skool hand sanding. The Mirka and Festool hand sanders are excellent for such tasks.

........ On reflection, I hope that none of the above comes across as being condescending. It is based on many years of experience, but I am aware that there is more than one way to skin the unfortunate proverbial cat.

Chunkytfg · 10 May 2021

opps said:
I have only ever used the interface pads for large flat surfaces when using 180+ grits, that said, You may find that they are not suitable for, for example, square section table legs. Being so soft, they will cut through the corners, in those cases, and extra hard base would be better. When sanding thinner stock material, not only do I use a smaller diameter sander, I also tilt the sander so that I am not hitting the edges and then resort to old skool hand sanding. The Mirka and Festool hand sanders are excellent for such tasks.

........ On reflection, I hope that none of the above comes across as being condescending. It is based on many years of experience, but I am aware that there is more than one way to skin the unfortunate proverbial cat.

Thanks for the advice. I'm always happy to read tips and don't take offence if it is something I already know. I tend to mainly sand large flat surfaces too.

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Sander Advice

Deleted member 174758

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