Still at planing stage but could do with building advice

Joined
11 Jan 2009
Messages
202
Reaction score
1
Location
London
Country
United Kingdom
Hi all, I have instructed an architect for a storey side extension and single storey rear extension on a semi detached property. The attached picture is my mock up of existing ground floor plan and what I think will be the proposed plan. While still waiting for the architect to complete his plans I have a couple of questions regarding some aspects of the build

1) Rear Extension Size -> Architect says I am allowed to extend out of the rear to 3.6m. Any reason why I can't go out to 4m or do I risk planning permission rejection?
2) New Boiler Location -> Existing boiler (Marked RED in both plans) is in front of house and I can only think the new location will be at the back of the house where the new kitchen will be. I am assuming the garage will not be an ideal location because I can't put the flue on the boundary wall and there is no window ventilation in the garage. Will there be any issues with running the gas supply from from of the house to the back of that's allowed?. I am assuming it will have to run inside the garage along the boundary wall it gets to the kitchen?. We currently have a heat only type boiler so will be changing to combiner's .... I take it that we will absolutely not need the water cylinder & tank anymore?
3) Garage partition wall (YELLOW) -> Will the wall between the Garage and Kitchen be a solid or cavity wall?. Whats best to keep the cold completely out?. What type of door (kitchen into Garage) is allowed to keep the cold/draft out? Since there will be living spaces above the garage. Whats the best way of insulating the floor above?
4) Existing Kitchen converted into a Study? -> The architect said we should take the stud partition out between the old kitchen and lounge to allow more natural light though to the lounge. This seems a good idea .... and could potentially be used as a dining instead or even an open study area. We intend to sell the property if the price is right. So my question is will the price be higher removing the stud wall or keeping it as a separate room?
5) Heating the rear Extension > I hate the cold and unfortunately we are north facing. Which will give us the best heating? under floor electric/ water heating or traditional CH radiators?

Thanks

View media item 106575
 
Sponsored Links
Just dealing with number 1 first; Not sure where your architect got the 3.6m from? S/he might be thinking of permitted development allowance - but for a semi that is 3m, not 3.6m? It's academic anyway because PD doesn't apply for a large wrap-around extension like that. It is planning only, and when you apply for planning you can apply for whatever you like.

In your case it will depend on the existing situation with your adjoined neighbour. Are there any windows and doors close to the boundary? What's on the other side? Does you neighbour have an extension? How high is the boundary wall? Stuff like that.
 
Bearing in mind that the whole rear extension will be single storey with pitched roof....
Attached is also a floor plan of neighbours on both sides. We have standard 6ft -ish wooden fences. Standing by my patio door, I can see part of my adjoined neighbour's conservatory. If I am upstairs I can see the roof of the conservatory from the 2 windows on the rear. I am assuming that the view will be similar if I has an extension as well.

The other neighbour is an end of terrace with a top and bottom flat. It is set forward of my front elevation. It is between 65cm - 200cm from the boundary wooden fence. It has what looks like a 2m single storey rear extension to make the bottom flat big enough.... I could almost guess the 2 flats (especially the top one) will definitely notice the 2nd floor of my proposed side extension even though its not extending past the rear wall :(
View media item 106576
 
You might run into the 45° rule. Take a 45° line from the centre of the neighbour's double doors. The rule says you can't cut that line with your extension. Some LPAs apply this rigorously, some are more relaxed and will consider circumstances. The adjoined side, against the conservatory, looks ok. You could probably go to 4m on that side. But that will just increase the 45° issue.

Look up a couple of similar nearby applications - approved and not approved. Download the officers report and see what policies and guidance was used to determine the applications and then look up those documents.
 
Sponsored Links
I had a look at a few refused & granted planning applications and its a mixed bag. Some granted where similar sizes declined elsewhere ....

I may have a problem here with the 45 degree rule though wondering why the architect did not raise possible concerns. Do the planing officers come to the site for measurements before making a decision?


Had I know about this 45degree rule, I won't have bothered with an extension :(
 
Build the bit that won't get planning permission under PD, then apply for the other bit.
 
Build the bit that won't get planning permission under PD, then apply for the other bit.

Another sketch showing the area on plan (in red) that could be impacted by the 45°. Both windows on that building are habitable spaces. Looks pretty much like most of my proposed rear extension and some part of side extension & roof are affected.

Woody, I am completely new to this. Which part will fall under PD that is not trumped by 45° rule?


View media item 106592
 
This is the closest you'll get under PD. Some LPAs can be persuaded that since you can build this anyway under PD they might as well allow you to build the whole thing, other's seem to dig their heels in. It's a bit of a hangover to when these PD rules came in. LPAs hated them as they allowed people to build stuff they didn't like. If you've got an old dinosaur in your LPA you might have problems.
 

Attachments

  • Title.pdf
    45.4 KB · Views: 121
...... This is a lot more complicated than I thought and that not even getting to the build part!. I will hopefully speak with the architect tomorrow about my concerns. He has been doing work in my borough for a very long time so hopping that not bringing this to my attention is because he thinks its ok. We do need the space and may have to move if that design is refused
 
In the end you may have to apply and see what happens, but planning is never guaranteed. If refused you will then know the reasons. you might be able to tweak the design or it might be worth an appeal.
 
The 45° rule is fundamental to almost all homeowner applications and I can't believe that any plan drawer would "forget" it or not mention it, if it was a policy of the the local planning authority. It can be a real show stopper, as illustrated above.
 
Spoken with the architect about my concerns and he told me to send a picture of the 2 houses so he can recheck again. He said best to submit and see what happens.

Some thing else he did on the drawing was to set back the wall of side extension a little bit from the front elevation. Roof also set back and downwards which he says are the requirements. Personally, while it may be pleasing to the eye , it's still a loss of space within the house. I can see a lot of extensions not observing this requirements so not sure why councils don't enforce their own rules
 
My DIYer thoughts ...

1) Rear Extension Size ->
Architect says I am allowed to extend out of the rear to 3.6m. Any reason why I can't go out to 4m or do I risk planning permission rejection?
The 3.6m might be because of the pitched roof - any more and maybe the pitch will be too low for tiles.
If you want more, the architect could design a flat roof then pitch.​

2) New Boiler Location -> Existing boiler (Marked RED in both plans) is in front of house and I can only think the new location will be at the back of the house where the new kitchen will be. I am assuming the garage will not be an ideal location because I can't put the flue on the boundary wall and there is no window ventilation in the garage. Will there be any issues with running the gas supply from from of the house to the back of that's allowed?. I am assuming it will have to run inside the garage along the boundary wall it gets to the kitchen?. We currently have a heat only type boiler so will be changing to combiner's .... I take it that we will absolutely not need the water cylinder & tank anymore?
No reason why you can't move it. Expect disruption though, as it might mean floorboards up, or screed cut etc. These things also seem to cost loads too
3) Garage partition wall (YELLOW) -> Will the wall between the Garage and Kitchen be a solid or cavity wall?. Whats best to keep the cold completely out?. What type of door (kitchen into Garage) is allowed to keep the cold/draft out? Since there will be living spaces above the garage. Whats the best way of insulating the floor above?
you can have it however you like, cavity would probably be best, but solid wall with insulation board might save a few inches space.

For door, a standard external door will be needed to keep drafts, and intruders, out.

Room above could be insulated between the joists, means removing everything in the room, probably best if that is not possible, if not, then insulating the garage roof - but you'd want fireproof insulation and plasterboards.​

4) Existing Kitchen converted into a Study? -> The architect said we should take the stud partition out between the old kitchen and lounge to allow more natural light though to the lounge. This seems a good idea .... and could potentially be used as a dining instead or even an open study area. We intend to sell the property if the price is right. So my question is will the price be higher removing the stud wall or keeping it as a separate room?
That new living room needs a window, so the wall has to go
5) Heating the rear Extension > I hate the cold and unfortunately we are north facing. Which will give us the best heating? under floor electric/ water heating or traditional CH radiators?
Underfloor wet heating if you have big budget, otherwise radiators. Modern extensions are very well insulated, my lounge (3 years old) keeps very warm all year round - in winter a sunny day is enough to keep it warm, so radiators will be perfectly good for warmth, depends on preference and budget.​
 
He said best to submit and see what happens.
LOL. Crap advice. Does he actually know what he's doing? Or is he a wonderful maverick that can beat the system?

An application should only be submitted that has a calculated and good chance of success, and that conforms to the local planning policy - unless you intend to argue a point and appeal an issue.

Set backs are common policy too. Whether people actually build to approved plans and get enforced is a different matter to submitting plans that conform to planning policy and get approved as being designed to meet the policy.
 
Thanks @Djangobanjo, Budget is small as we intend to sell and use gains to move to another property or just move without extending if gains (or loss) is not worth the hassle

@^woody^ he seemed to have completely overlooked it. Anyhow he said he will redo the plans free if it fails for that. He is an old chap & seems old school, manual drawings !. Last time I saw anyone doing that must have been about 40yrs ago. My old man is a civil engineer so use to remember going to his office after school. There would be architects & draftsmen drawing over those large tables.
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top