I want an uncertificated CU change on DIY installation (ed.)

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

Hi, I know I’m going to be in for a bashing here but in the end I just need someone to help..
I’m a (now ex) property developer and I’ve taught myself every task, from design, planning, digging, drains, thru to brickwork, roofing and painting etc. As I work alone it’s always proven impossible to judge when I’ll need a spark etc. I passed C&G 2381 17th edition a few years ago with flying colours pleased to say but only for my own knowledge/safety. So as I’ve built, I’ve added accessories as nec and replaced any dodgy wiring along the way.
As I’m now staying in this property all I want is to replace the existing consumer unit for a larger, more up to date one. Of course, understandably, as soon as any spark knows a non-competent has touched the wiring they scarper without giving me a chance to explain that I’m not a complete DH and that I’m also not asking for any certs, I just don’t want to change the consumer unit because that’s a risk too far.
We did have a completely unrelated electrical issue a few weeks ago but that was with the old supply in the steel & bitumen casing. The supply guys came out and stripped it all and replaced everything to the consumer unit tails so that’s all new & safe. Now I simply was someone local(ish) who’d be willing to update the consumer unit and either, check the system if they want, or just quietly take the cash.

oldbutnotdead · 5 Jun 2021

So whats the problem (apart from you talking too much)?
'Hello electrician, can you do me a price for supply and fit nice new metal CU please with an EICR'
'Yeah sure, what do you want- twin RCD, RCBOs, high integrity?'
'Twin RCD will do, an RCBO for the kitchen would be handy if it won't break the bank'.
If your existing CU has no RCD protection then a prudent fitter might do the circuit testing bit of the EICR first (to make sure there are no N-E fails, borrowed neutrals etc.). They should issue a cert for the work they do but it won't be an installation cert, just an EICR. As the householder you'll be able to tell them where the furthest socket is, any stealth ones in kitchen units etc. but no need to volunteer anything else

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

Fair enough

securespark · 5 Jun 2021

To me, wanting to fly under the radar will get you into trouble and not for the reason you think

Ask someone to do a job like that without paperwork and you've very likely to get a cowboy who knows f all.

A proper qualified spark would not consider doing a job like that without a written record of it.

ericmark · 5 Jun 2021

A tradesman needs to watch his back, what ever the trade is, and as an electrician completing paperwork is part of that watch my back process. So if I as a non scheme member is asked by a home owner to swap a CU and am told this is part of a larger job and is covered by a LABC notification then there is nothing to stop me swapping the CU and issuing the installation certificate which is to be passed onto the LABC. If I don't issue an installation certificate then I am saying I know this is illegal, but if I issue it, then I can claim I thought it was covered with the LABC completion certificate. Even when I know full well the LABC is not really involved.

The LABC at least where I lived did not issue permits to work, it was all word of mouth, so the LABC inspector tells the owner fit the CU and I will come back week Monday to inspect, or even send me the installation certificate when complete, and the owner tells electrician get on with it. Electrician trusts the owner has told LABC and it is owner not electrician in trouble if they are not told.

The exception is if anywhere the electrician shows the name or logo of a scheme provider, if he shows the logo or name, then the owner can assume work done will be notified by scheme provider so then it is the electrician in trouble if they are not told.

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

securespark said:
To me, wanting to fly under the radar will get you into trouble and not for the reason you think

Ask someone to do a job like that without paperwork and you've very likely to get a cowboy who knows f all.

A proper qualified spark would not consider doing a job like that without a written record of it.

Good point

sxturbo · 5 Jun 2021

So you've passed the c&g 17th edition? That means you are competent if an edition out if date.

You can technically install the system yourself, it is notifiable works, so you would have to do all the certification with the local authority.

Here is an interesting and helpful thread from the Screwfix forum

https://community.screwfix.com/threads/sign-off-diy-work-building-control.174796/

That being said it would probably be easier to get someone out to install it.

sparkwright · 5 Jun 2021

Aztec-59 said:
Hi, I know I’m going to be in for a bashing here but in the end I just need someone to help..
I’m a (now ex) property developer and I’ve taught myself every task, from design, planning, digging, drains, thru to brickwork, roofing and painting etc. As I work alone it’s always proven impossible to judge when I’ll need a spark etc. I passed C&G 2381 17th edition a few years ago with flying colours pleased to say but only for my own knowledge/safety. So as I’ve built, I’ve added accessories as nec and replaced any dodgy wiring along the way.
As I’m now staying in this property all I want is to replace the existing consumer unit for a larger, more up to date one. Of course, understandably, as soon as any spark knows a non-competent has touched the wiring they scarper without giving me a chance to explain that I’m not a complete DH and that I’m also not asking for any certs, I just don’t want to change the consumer unit because that’s a risk too far.
We did have a completely unrelated electrical issue a few weeks ago but that was with the old supply in the steel & bitumen casing. The supply guys came out and stripped it all and replaced everything to the consumer unit tails so that’s all new & safe. Now I simply was someone local(ish) who’d be willing to update the consumer unit and either, check the system if they want, or just quietly take the cash.

So what was the question again?

Qualifications or no qualifications, the work you have done yourself may not meet with the approval of whoever fits the consumer unit, with or without certificate.

It would be negligent to fit a new consumer unit on a new untested installation which may have unknown faults.

There will be people out there who will fit a new cu without paperwork, and also without doing some tests just for their own peace of mind.

It is so easy to test a property whilst the consumer unit is in bits - so I can't really understand your reluctance to have it tested AND certified.

Why would you NOT want it checked and certified?

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

I wasn’t saying I DON’T want it certifying, all I was trying to get over is that if someone offered to replace the CU but didn’t feel comfortable putting their name on a cert for an installation they hadn’t undertaken then I’d go with that. ALTHOUGH, as securespark said, that’s likely to encourage a cowboy to do it which is not an option. The irony is, the consumer unit is actually ‘ok’, it’s a Wylex unit with type 2 cb’s but I’m one short because I split the new kitchen installation into 2 separates to spread the load. However, they’re currently both going into the same cb because of lack of breakers. Even with this there’s no load issues, I just wanted to future proof the kitchen in case we changed it in future. So now simply want an understanding spark that preferably would get how & why I am where I am, trust that as someone who has C&G certs that I know how to install 2 new rings and a dedicated 6mm cooker circuit safely and replace my current CU. AND I’m happy to pay decently over the odds if this person completed the installation with the relevant sign off.

sxturbo · 5 Jun 2021

With the work you have done a sparky will come out and change the CU no problem, he will certify the tests and ensure that the electrical side is safe and that his bit is done to code.

This would be no different to rocking up to a 70's house that's had an extension done in the past and replacing a fuse box with a modern consumer unit.

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

You all sound really positive but someone here I’d already spoken to just went cold turkey on me so I assumed major problems. Will try again elsewhere with renewed hope. Thanks everyone for such prompt & helpful advice (apart from oldbutnotdead for slating my text length when I was just trying to explain the full pic which I’ve noticed many don’t initially do!) I’d thank him too but I’m running out of spa

flameport · 5 Jun 2021

The fact that you or anyone else has altered wiring or changed accessories in the property is irrelevant.
Most properties will have various undocumented alterations, and most older installations will require some amount of repairs.

This is how changing the consumer unit goes:
1 - Existing installation is inspected and tested
2 - Any problems found are repaired
3 - New consumer unit is installed
4 - Further testing done
5 - Certificate for consumer unit provided.

Stating that you did most of the wiring yourself and certificates not needed will indicate you are a timewaster who wants the CU done for next to nothing, and you get nowhere.

Aztec-59 · 5 Jun 2021

….which is EXACTLY the opposite of my intentions. Thanks again for the advice!

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I want an uncertificated CU change on DIY installation (ed.)

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