Garden Socket installation

Hysteresis · 11 Aug 2021

i am about to install some garden electrics, just to explain, I am a Charted Electrical Engineer but am now retired and not fully up to date with the IEE regs. I would ask it what I propose installing would meet with the present regulations for Electrical Certification.
I want a couple of external Garden sockets and a three or four wall lights around my garden, What I propose doing is installing a 13A Switched Fused Spur with indicator light off the House Socket ring main and mount the fused Spur inside the house. Then taking a 2.5 sq mm Steel Wire Armoured cable from the back of this fused Spur directly through the cavity wall, and sink the cable 30cm into the ground across a pathway then run the SWA cable 10 yards along a fence and terminate into a weatherproof double 13A socket. Then take a second SWA cable from these sockets to a Weatherproof 3A Switched Fused Spur to supply four LED wall lights. I intend to use 1sq mm 'SY' cable for the wall lights as this will give a bit of mechanical protection to this cable as it will run above ground Clipped to the back of the garden fence.
The 13A internal Switched fused Spur will be used to isolate the external electrics and the 3A Switched fuse spur used to operate the external lights. This arrangement will give fused discrimination for the Sockets and lighting circuits.
Would this arrangement be legally acceptable and satisfy for Electrical Certification?
I would appreciate any comments from any 'Sparkies' out there.

RandomGrinch · 11 Aug 2021

I'm not a sparky, but for discussions sake, have you considered putting a plug on the end?
Certain YouTubers:

consider this to have the same status as an extension lead and so bypasses some of the regs.
Not proper or right, but just a suggestion!

Hysteresis · 12 Aug 2021

RandomGrinch said:
I'm not a sparky, but for discussions sake, have you considered putting a plug on the end?
Certain YouTubers:

consider this to have the same status as an extension lead and so bypasses some of the regs.
Not proper or right, but just a suggestion!

An Extension lead is considered a very Temporary installation, what I am installing is permanent .
I think the suggestion you have made is unsafe and would not consider it as any electrical installation I would have anything to do with.
Bur thanks for the reply.

RandomGrinch · 12 Aug 2021

You may have a point, hence the jest in my post!
However, I'm interested to find out why you think a 13A plug will be dangerous when a fused spur will not?
Granted, to properly terminate the SWA, you would need a commando to plug adaptor. But this effort may be worth it to avoid regs for what is basically (a very good) extension lead?

Hysteresis · 12 Aug 2021

RandomGrinch said:
You may have a point, hence the jest in my post!
However, I'm interested to find out why you think a 13A plug will be dangerous when a fused spur will not?
Granted, to properly terminate the SWA, you would need a commando to plug adaptor. But this effort may be worth it to avoid regs for what is basically (a very good) extension lead?

I certainly don't consider a 13A plug to be dangerous if used in the intended designed application, but the application you describe is certainly not what the 13A Plug was designed for. I personally have never heard of a Commando to Plug adaptor.
I, personally, would take the effort to install something permanent rather than adapt a weird connection of a SWA cable to a 13A plug just to overcome the regulations which were developed for public safety.
The point of my posting was to ask if my proposed installation satisfied the Modern IEE regs.
I think it would have 10 years ago but the IEE Regs develop and are continually updated by highly educated and experienced engineers for safety concerns.
I understand that the previously commonly accepted Ring Main Concept for domestic power circuits is now discouraged for reasons I fully agree with.
I am unsure as the the acceptability of a Fused spur off a ring main followed by a lower rated fuse spur off the Sockets installed from the initial fused spur.
As the fused rating ensure discrimination, I can see nothing wrong with the design, but the IEE regs may not agree with me.

flameport · 12 Aug 2021

What is suggested is ok, however this:

Hysteresis said:
Then taking a 2.5 sq mm Steel Wire Armoured cable from the back of this fused Spur directly through the cavity wall,

could be a problem as it will be next to impossible to connect a SWA gland directly to be back of an accessory.

A more likely method is to terminate the SWA into a small box on the outside wall, and have a cable from that through the wall into the FCU.

RandomGrinch said:
bypasses some of the regs.

Attaching a plug to an electrical installation changes nothing.

markyd1 · 12 Aug 2021

RandomGrinch said:
You may have a point, hence the jest in my post!
However, I'm interested to find out why you think a 13A plug will be dangerous when a fused spur will not?
Granted, to properly terminate the SWA, you would need a commando to plug adaptor. But this effort may be worth it to avoid regs for what is basically (a very good) extension lead?

not proper..not right and may be a way around the regs...Is there anything you do thats done properly

SUNRAY · 12 Aug 2021

flameport said:
Attaching a plug to an electrical installation changes nothing.

I wish everyone understood this point, it seems far too many think anything after a plug is excluded from regs.

If that were the case houses would have a socket after the meter to circumnavigate the big book.

winston1 · 12 Aug 2021

The so called regs are not statuary so why worry?

BS3036 · 12 Aug 2021

winston1 said:
The so called regs are not statuary so why worry?

I would say that is rather obvious but not sure why you said it.

EFLImpudence · 13 Aug 2021

Hysteresis said:
I think it would have 10 years ago but the IEE Regs develop and are continually updated by highly educated and experienced engineers for safety concerns.

Mmmm.

I understand that the previously commonly accepted Ring Main Concept for domestic power circuits is now discouraged for reasons I fully agree with.

Is it? It is not discouraged by the regulations. British people just install them because that is what people do because that is what people do. Some people realise that in certain situations it is not the best method.
I will probably agree but what are those reasons, do you think?

I am unsure as the the acceptability of a Fused spur off a ring main followed by a lower rated fuse spur off the Sockets installed from the initial fused spur.

Well, everyone speaks of installing 'fused spurs' as if they are a separate complete entity in themselves rather than the actual objective being to power equipment.
They are no different than a plugged in extension lead with a fuse in the plug and fixed cabling. The fuse in both cases is only required because the equipment being used is too small for the ring circuit protective device. Plus it limits the total load to 13A - likely sufficient from what you state but not always the case.

Use adequate cable and accessories and the fuse would not be required.

As the fused rating ensure discrimination, I can see nothing wrong with the design, but the IEE regs may not agree with me.

Of course there is nothing wrong. On the contrary, not using such fuses in these situations would cause them to disagree with you.

Hysteresis · 13 Aug 2021

EFLImpudence said:
Mmmm.

Use adequate cable and accessories and the fuse would not be required.

The fuse would still be required for for safety under Fault conditions of the equipment being powered.

winston1 · 13 Aug 2021

EFLImpudence said:
The fuse in both cases is only required because the equipment being used is too small for the ring circuit protective device. Plus it limits the total load to 13A - likely sufficient from what you state but not always the case.

Use adequate cable and accessories and the fuse would not be required.

No, the purpose of the fuse is to protect the cable not the equipment on the end of it which should be internally protected. The manufacturer has no way of knowing that a fused plug will be used (could be a 15 amp type in the UK or a Schuko elsewhere) so must internally protect it.

winston1 · 13 Aug 2021

Hysteresis said:
The fuse would still be required for for safety under fault conditions of the equipment being powered.

No, the equipment should be internally protected. The manufacturer has no means of knowing whether a fused plug will be used.

EFLImpudence · 13 Aug 2021

Hysteresis said:
The fuse would still be required for for safety under Fault conditions of the equipment being powered.

No, fuses are not to protect the equipment - just the cables.

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Garden Socket installation

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