150metre supply to outbuilding

speccy said:

So. If it's all the same, wind your judgemental 'oh so denso no idea' neck in.

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It was you who asked about the regulations and you said you could do it but it would cost a lot to reinstate things. You'll need to notify your water authority anyway so they'll give you the go ahead or not.

Check with your water provider, if they're happy with your technical solution (and your budget has room for it) then happy days, on to the next challenge. Still think the cable tray nailed to the trees will look gash though . Any more thoughts on the heating sketch- if the place is in the sticks with free wood you could do worse than a woodburner with a thermal store (time consuming but quite satisfying, the store will work with ASHP etc if you spec it properly)

bernardgreen said:

Then hand dig around the roots and pass the pipe under the roots

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<SIGH> Oh Bernard stop it, or you sticking your oar in trying to pull my leg - an 'oh sorry i didn't realise that' is always welcome after reading this.

So this is the talk i was given about the roots from the forester, which is more or less what i knew already having worked as a volunteer in a park many years ago, just googled and found something similar, have a read. Then have a pause for thought. It isn't just locating that big tap root and digging round it with a hand spade you've already done far more damage getting there.

(i would like to add i am far from a thicko just because i don't have a degree in plumbing i do research alot of things in alot of ways so)


About 90% of tree roots are in the top 10" (26 cm) of soil, and 98% are in the top 18" (46 cm). A tree’s roots extend, unless there’s an obstacle like a road or building, two to three times the length of its branches. This is a tree’s root zone: a broad, shallow, vulnerable mass of roots.

It’s true that trees such as oaks and walnuts have a taproot when young, but in maturity their root systems look like a pancake, not a carrot. Most of us have seen trees which have been uprooted by a storm, but that monster taproot has yet to be spotted. It’s no coincidence that the flat root system one sees on a windthrown tree is referred to as a root plate.

To survive, roots need to get oxygen directly from soil pores. Compaction from vehicles or equipment operated within the root zone will permanently compress pores and exclude oxygen. Adding soil to the root zone to raise the grade (for instance to lay sod) has the same effect. In these cases, roots slowly suffocate, and trees will eventually show symptoms of decline. In wet soil conditions, such damage potential is far, far greater.




Excavation or trenching activities within a root zone will sever some tree roots, and probably will compact the rest. Photo: Peter Bedker, Bugwood.org, Creative Commons, some rights reserved
Excavation or trenching activities within a root zone will sever some tree roots, and probably will compact the rest. Root damage may kill a tree outright within a few years, but more commonly there will be a prolonged decline over 5-10 years. Because of this time lag, oftentimes it is secondary, opportunistic agents which get the blame.

denso13 said:

It was you who asked about the regulations and you said you could do it but it would cost a lot to reinstate things. You'll need to notify your water authority anyway so they'll give you the go ahead or not.

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It was YOU who made the wrong assumption and may i add an unnecessary negative observation, apology in the post i guess?

speccy said:

It was YOU who made the wrong assumption and may i add an unnecessary negative observation, apology in the post i guess?

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Just used to doing things properly that's all, there is always a way. Not sure what wrong assumption I made.

denso13 said:

Just used to doing things properly that's all, there is always a way. Not sure what wrong assumption I made.

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(to which i responded i already have a forester report on the correct method here)

denso13 said:

There is a difference between "cannot" and "cannot be bothered/don't want to pay".

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speccy said:

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What I said was true, not a wrong assumption.

Dig a hole at one end, one at the other, possibly one or two in between and mole it through at 1200mm deep? You'll save a fortune on expensive insulation for something that may not get approved anyway.

speccy said:

i don't have a degree in plumbing

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Neither do I have a degree in plumbing.

When laying water pipe lines in the ground plumbing is not a relevant skill ( except for the connections at the ends of the pipes )

bernardgreen said:

Neither do I have a degree in plumbing.

When laying water pipe lines in the ground plumbing is not a relevant skill ( except for the connections at the ends of the pipes )

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Indeed hence you 'speculating' scraping round the unicorn tap roots of mature trees (after you've already done the damage on the surface) an adequate solution to routing the pipe, highlighting the fact you don't have the required knowledge to advise on installing the supply pipe either, you need a multiple SME approach for such a task.
I also somewhat disagree with your observation because as a plumber you have knowledge of the materials used, expansion requirements, thermal, flow, pressures and such that a groundworks team don't have (dont forget this may be comms power etc. ) these are all pertinent to the entire end to end installation requirements not just the connections.

You can't just poke the cable through the land and just say fck it thatll do. Authorities won't allow that unless you've absolutely proved due diligence and compliance in your final approach.

I am exploring every avenue obviously the most cost effective and least damaging to the environment.

denso13 said:

What I said was true, not a wrong assumption.

Dig a hole at one end, one at the other, possibly one or two in between and mole it through at 1200mm deep? You'll save a fortune on expensive insulation for something that may not get approved anyway.

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Oh stopit you're just attempting to reverse or you want attention? There is a big difference between quote your snide comment ""cannot" and "cannot be bothered/don't want to pay". And working out what has the least impact on the environment and still viable from a budget perspective.

Moling companies ive spoken to have already stressed a minimum of £700 to arrive setup and test, and they have already been stressing about the mature trees and their root balls being too big to penetrate. And potentially £6k -12k to mole up to 150m if they can which they can't guarantee . What does annoy me in the building etc trade is the utter reluctance for some to reveal their day rate. Something i happily break down in mine.

So..

Running the pipe over ground im looking at about £2k with minimal impact to the environment. (subject to approval from authorities)
Moling - up to 12k if it works before installing pipes.

How am i saving a fortune? Are these companies having a laugh do you know the rate per metre or day rate? Are you making assumptions again?

speccy said:

I am exploring every avenue obviously the most cost effective and least damaging to the environment.

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Just as I did on several projects on the last 50 years.

speccy said:

Are these companies having a laugh

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Seems it to me, I pay nothing near that.

speccy said:

Are you making assumptions again?

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Are you trying to impress with your sarcastic posts?

You came here for advice, I presume, and I have been doing this sort thing for many many years. Do it right, first time, you won't regret it.

We'll that's a reasonable approach- cost the options. If you can persuade your forester mate to do a written report about the environmental bit and attach it to your request to the water provider that should cap it off nicely.

denso13 said:

You came here for advice, I presume

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It seems like he might have a bit of a problem over not getting the advice he wants.

denso13 said:

Seems it to me, I pay nothing near that.



Are you trying to impress with your sarcastic posts?

You came here for advice, I presume, and I have been doing this sort thing for many many years. Do it right, first time, you won't regret it.

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You the guy that gets 95% discount at every trade counter?

My retort was to your original sarcastic post about insinuating i may not be doing the job properly or to tight to do so. If you dont like my response (suffering butt hurt) dont dish it out

So whats the going day rate or estimate round your way to mole say 150m soft ground/clay?