UK regulations and bathroom socket outlets

Mattrm · 12 Aug 2021

Is the UK the only country that prohibits socket outlets in the bathroom (unless they are 10 feet from the bathtub) it seems most other countries (even Australia which has generally been more strict with electrics) don’t seem to have a issue with them.

From a safety perspective it’s probably a positive thing but that doesn’t explain why other countries don’t seem to have any issues.

JohnW2 · 12 Aug 2021

Mattrm said:
Is the UK the only country that prohibits socket outlets in the bathroom (unless they are 10 feet from the bathtub) it seems most other countries (even Australia which has generally been more strict with electrics) don’t seem to have a issue with them.

I can't tell you whether it is the "only" country with such a restriction, but it is certainly true that most countries I know about don't have similar restrictions.

Mattrm said:
From a safety perspective it’s probably a positive thing but that doesn’t explain why other countries don’t seem to have any issues.

Different countries have (in all sorts of contexts) appreciably differing views about 'safety', including differing views about what degree of risk is acceptable. It's also worth noting that the number of domestic electrocutions appears to be remarkably low in the UK, and the same might not be true is some of the 'other countries'.

The UK's "3 metre rule" is presumably an attempt to minimise the use of portable electric devices (such as hairdryers) by people in a bath or shower. Maybe some of the other countries don't think that people are likely to do that and/or don't think it would represent an unacceptable risk even if they did?

Kind Regards, John

ericmark · 13 Aug 2021

The IET/BSi regulations are not law, so not really prohibited, although if you fitted a socket not complying with regulations and some one get injured or killed as a result it would be hard to show it was safe.

JohnW2 · 13 Aug 2021

ericmark said:
The IET/BSi regulations are not law, so not really prohibited, although if you fitted a socket not complying with regulations and some one get injured or killed as a result it would be hard to show it was safe.

Indeed - but, as you imply, that's not really anything to do with what BS7671 says or doesn't say.

In fact, if someone is injured or killed in a fashion that essentially 'resulted from' (or, at least, 'was facilitated by') a socket being near a bath or shower, that would obviously be proof that such a practice was "not necessarily safe". However, that's probably true of lots of things (i.e. almost nothing is 'guaranteed to be totally safe'), so one has to make judgments (about 'how safe' something is) on the basis of the estimated probability that something might result in injury or death. If that probability is extremely low, we might well decide that it was 'safe enough'.

In any event, even BS7671 has far from 'covered all bases'. As I've often said, my daughter has a socket (fully compliant with BS7671) just outside her (small) bathroom door which is only about 1 metre from the end of her bath "as the hairdryer cable flies" - so, in terms of the 'hairdryer/whatever argument), in 'safety' terms she might just as well have a socket 1 metre from the bath within the bathroom!

Kind Regards, John

Mattrm · 13 Aug 2021

Thanks I guess as JohnW said different people will have different ideas about what is safe and what isn’t. A lot of countries would consider electric showers to be unsafe however they are common place in the UK.

Another example being some countries believe it’s only necessary to include RCD/GFI protection on socket outlets in high risk environments such as kitchen countertops, bathrooms, outdoors etc however most European countries mandate RCDs on all domestic circuits.

SFK · 13 Aug 2021

Some countries allow 'real' electric showers where the cable is in direct contact with the water:

JohnW2 · 13 Aug 2021

Mattrm said:
Thanks I guess as JohnW said different people will have different ideas about what is safe and what isn’t.

Yes, and it's not just variation between countries - there's also been a lot of variation over time, within individual countries. Many of the things which were 'allowed and accepted' (hence, one assumes, regarded as 'safe enough' in terms of that era's thinking) when I was a youngster in the 50s and 60s would be totally unthinkable today (and probably would have been 'unthinkable' even 40 years ago)!

Mattrm said:
... Another example being some countries believe it’s only necessary to include RCD/GFI protection on socket outlets in high risk environments ...

Indeed - and that was, of course, once the case in the UK. We started with RCD protection only being required for sockets 'likely to be used for outdoor equipment' and then gradually extended it to the present position in which essentially all sockets are required to be RCD protected.

Kind Regards, John

crystal ball · 13 Aug 2021

I spent some years Zimbabwe, I do not recall sockets in bathrooms, they also use ring finals, maybe because the C&G courses there referenced the IEE regs, I only worked on government projects and they had their own specification

flameport · 13 Aug 2021

Most countries use one or more electrical standards based on IEC 60364 or it's derivatives, including the UK.

The UK version has the 3m sockets thing added, it's not found in 60364 and never was.

JohnW2 · 14 Aug 2021

flameport said:
Most countries use one or more electrical standards based on IEC 60364 or it's derivatives, including the UK. .... The UK version has the 3m sockets thing added, it's not found in 60364 and never was.

Might it be possible for you to give a brief overview/summary of what IEC 60364 does have to say about electrical things in bathrooms etc. ?

Kind Regards, John

Ragnar_AT · 18 Aug 2021

I did a random spot check on a few countries. Belgium and France are the only ones I found that still have a zone 3. In France, zone 3 extends 400 mm from zone 2 and no accessories other than fixed water heaters, SELV lights and shaver sockets are permitted within the zones. In Belgium zone 3 extends 2400 mm from zone 2 but sockets are permitted in zone 3 if protected by a 30 mA RCD and at least IP X1 and even in zone 2 if protected by a 10 mA RCD and at least IP X4. I think Ireland largely follows UK practices as far as bathroom electrics are concerned and I'm tempted to assume (but haven't checked) so do Malta and Cyprus. All other European countries that I'm aware of permit any accessories outside zones 0-2 with no IP requirements, unless they're likely to get splashed with water.

FrodoOne · 19 Aug 2021

Mattrm said:
Is the UK the only country that prohibits socket outlets in the bathroom (unless they are 10 feet from the bathtub) it seems most other countries (even Australia which has generally been more strict with electrics) don’t seem to have a issue with them.

From a safety perspective it’s probably a positive thing but that doesn’t explain why other countries don’t seem to have any issues.

It is rather futile to ask any such a question.

The "regulations" in "operation" in any "country" are what they are.
Those in any other country may view them with the perspective from that country as being good or ill.

It does not affect the regulations in the country under consideration at all.

One would hope that any "Country" in the world would have "regulations' which were at least the minimum specified by an organisation such as the IEC.

If in some "Countries" the existing "regulations" are more "restrictive" than those "required" by the IEC, that is a matter for consideration as to the additional "safety" (if any) provided by adhering to such regulations as apposed to the "cost/inconvenience" involved.

JohnW2 · 19 Aug 2021

FrodoOne said:
It is rather futile to ask any such a question. The "regulations" in "operation" in any "country" are what they are. Those in any other country may view them with the perspective from that country as being good or ill.

It may be 'futile', in as much as it doesn't achieve or change anything, but it can be interesting to see and discuss how views/attitudes to such things vary from country to country.

Kind Regards, John

mikeey84 · 20 Aug 2021

Not directly related, but tangentially so

ElectroBoom is US/Canada based, and his exploration of UK electrics is interesting given his frame of perspective.

JohnD · 21 Aug 2021

mikeey84 said:
ElectroBoom is US/Canada based, and his exploration of UK electrics is interesting given his frame of perspective.

The man's a fool.

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UK regulations and bathroom socket outlets

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