Modern toilet flushes

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

I am currently doing battle with ours. Have replaced the main washer which lifts up and drops down. Somehow this is still letting water through so the cistern never stays full and valve is constantly refilling (it's now worse than it was and swuesks/moans at me).
Radio 4 had a documentary explaining that probably more water has actually been lost than saved with these modern systems.
The design seems to rely on the weight of water keeping the seal firmly in place. I am considering attaching weights to the main column somehow (but then it will be harder to actually flush)
Wanted to have a moan, but any advice welcome

just pumps · 11 Sep 2021

Did you clean the cradle of debris where the washer seals against. Didnt hear it but would tend to agree with R4.

I`m sure the fill valve isnt actually moaning at you.

oldbuffer · 11 Sep 2021

They're a daft idea. The drop valve type can dribble into the pan for ages if no one notices. Some friends of mine had a water bill for £300 more than usual one quarter, eventually traced to a a leaking flush valve.

The old fashioned syphon, when it went wrong, just stopped working and didn't waste water. Even better with an external overflow (alright, warning pipe) over the back door!

just pumps · 11 Sep 2021

Yep the high water bill is generally when people go looking or asking why.

terryplumb · 11 Sep 2021

Could the seal between the flush valve and cistern be the cause of water going into the pan ?

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

Not sure how to use this platform so am relying here to all replies so far.
Thanks for the humour and sympathy.
I checked for debris. I had also replaced large washer under the huge plastic nut (sorry about my terminology).
So I am convinced it's the thing that lifts and drops.
Also when it is still filling at a drip rate, applying some downward pressure to main column causes absolute silunce on fill valve.
I am fortunate in that I am not metered so I don't have to worry in that sense (not the right attitude I know)
I do think that sometimes the amount of testing and draining refilling etc even when fixing a dripping tap... Has the repair actually saved any water at all, or how long to 'break even'

terryplumb · 11 Sep 2021

There is a washer INSIDE the cistern , immediately below the flush valve ,is it in place and in good condition ?

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

I'm not sure what you mean. Yes. I also replaced the large washer between bottom of cistern and the large nut/screw in thin that canister locks into (locks in with 4 guides and a slight twist)
My comment about extra downward pressure stopping problem means I am convinced it is where drop valve comes down. Appreciate your help though.

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

The large washer I just referred to...
I suppose it is possible that I haven't squashed it enough, however I have hand twisted quite tight. My other experiences of plumbing tell me that over tightening is also a risk. I feel if I did another 90 degrees ( and you have to so that cannister fits nicely) I risk breaking it. So it is quite tight.

terryplumb · 11 Sep 2021

I can't follow your description mate. Did you remove the entire flush valve from the cistern ,which means the cistern has to be removed from the pan on close coupled toilets ??
Or did you just remove the top half of the flush valve ( the part that contains the bit that lifts up and down) ,leaving it's base still in situ inside the cistern, to fit your new seal (washer)?

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

? Thanks for trying to understand my problem. I attach a photo of I can. Both washers shown in photo have been replaced. I apologise for referring to the smaller white thing as a large nut.
Yes it is a close coupled toilet (I'm not a fan).
I certainly haven't moved the cistern itself. No need. It is screwed to wall and if disturbed would create different problems potentially.
The leak is going into the pan, so the issue must be with one of the two washers shown.

terryplumb · 11 Sep 2021

If you didn't take the cistern off the pan,how did you secure the white plastic piece ( bottom of your pic),and the black rubber washer below it ,onto the cistern ??

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

Ps, I am am appreciating people's help but would prefer not to be called mate (or love)

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

OK, so I fitted this toilet about 10yrs ago. Fitted the donut etc. Had to use lots of sealant as well. I honestly can't remember what nut went between. However when fitting small white thing, it definitely screws in. Earlier today, I assumed it was screwing into actual porcelain (sorry). I realise that sometimes with nuts and bolts they can turn on themselves and you need two spanners. However it really is screwing in tight I can assure you. So the receiving nut must be staying in place. Hope that makes sense.

Worrier61 · 11 Sep 2021

Perhaps now that you've helped me realise there is a nut underneath, I could screw it in tighter. Worse that can happen is nut will eventually turn on itself. Could mangle washer but I doubt it one that size.
The mystery as I've mentioned before... When applying downward pressure to column the subtle filling noise absolutely stops. It really feels like it is the drop washer ie top one in my photo. Thanks for your help so far. I'm happy if you want to leave it now. I know you may advise moving cistern but I don't feel I can face that at the moment.

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Modern toilet flushes

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