Neutral query

coylumbridge · 14 Sep 2021

The kitchen has two light fittings each with its own separate switch, one outside the kitchen and one inside.
One switch has live in/out and is on the lighting ring. Can't get access to the cable between the switch and the fitting or the neutral.
Second switch is via a ring mains fused spur and can access the neutral.
We would prefer one switch for both fittings. Both could have live off either lighting ring or fused spur.
However, because of the set up, one fitting would have lighting ring neutral and the other would have ring mains neutral.

We suspect we'll just have to live with having two switches but thought we'd ask anyway, ie is it feasible to have neutrals on different circuits? Haven't consulted an electrician yet.

We thought about bringing them into one double switch but think that's a No no as it could be dangerous having two different power sources inside one double switch for anyone working on it in future.

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks

EFLImpudence · 14 Sep 2021

You cannot 'mix' the circuits.

You would have to run a new cable somewhere anyway, wouldn't you?

Either between the switches or preferably between the lights, then disconnect whichever circuit became unused.

EFLImpudence · 14 Sep 2021

There is no problem having two separate circuits in one double switch as long as they are not connected.

Which switch is it that you want to keep? The one on the light circuit (not ring) or the one on the socket circuit.

coylumbridge · 14 Sep 2021

EFLImpudence said:
You cannot 'mix' the circuits.
You would have to run a new cable somewhere anyway, wouldn't you?
Either between the switches or preferably between the lights, then disconnect whichever circuit became unused.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, we didn't think we could mix the circuits but just wanted to check. The lighting neutral can't be reached within the ceiling. We wouldn't need to run a separate cable as we can connect lives between the two switches. However, we'll just continue with the two separate given the neutral issue.

coylumbridge · 14 Sep 2021

EFLImpudence said:
There is no problem having two separate circuits in one double switch as long as they are not connected.
Which switch is it that you want to keep? The one on the light circuit (not ring) or the one on the socket circuit.

Thanks again. This is an option for us then as we can extend the switched live cable inside the lighting ring switch outside the kitchen, through the wall and then into the fused spur switch but change it to a double switch. Cables would all be separate and inside the switch could be marked to warn future electricians. Thanks.

winston1 · 14 Sep 2021

coylumbridge said:
as we can extend the switched live cable inside the lighting ring

Oh dear. You have already been told by EFLimpedance that it is NOT a ring.

bernardgreen · 14 Sep 2021

EFLImpudence said:
The one on the light circuit (not ring)

winston1 said:
Oh dear. You have already been told by EFLimpedance that it is NOT a ring

Some lighting circuits are wired as a ring. Rare but possible, One has to have inspected the installation before one is able to say for certain that it is not a ring.

winston1 · 14 Sep 2021

I’d bet 6 months salary that it is not a ring.

BS3036 · 14 Sep 2021

winston1 said:
I’d bet 6 months salary that it is not a ring.

Is that the salary before you retired?

winston1 · 14 Sep 2021

sparkwright · 14 Sep 2021

Possible options:-

Run a cable between the two lights.

Consider wireless switches (Quinetic?).

coylumbridge · 15 Sep 2021

winston1 said:
Oh dear. You have already been told by EFLimpedance that it is NOT a ring.

Thanks but you've misquoted by missing the next word, ie "switch". There is a live feed and switched live inside the switch in the hall. "Extend" means disconnect each, put a standard connector on each, wire in a length of twin and earth (brown live feed, blue switched live with brown tape at either end) to each of the connectors. The other end of that cable goes through the wall and into a new double light switch so that it switches the light circuit live and the other switches the fused spur light. So only adding about a foot of length to each of the lighting live feed and lighting switched live. The single switch in the kitchen is replaced with a double switch, one for each kitchen light kept separate as each is from different sources and neutrals. The double hall switch (currently 1 hall and 1 kitchen) then gets replaced with a single switch. Thanks.

EFLImpudence · 15 Sep 2021

It's nothing to do with what you are altering.

The point is that lighting circuits are not normally wired in a 'ring', i.e a cable from the consumer unit, around the house and back to the consumer unit to the same fuse/circuit breaker.

Only sockets in Britain (and some former colonies) are traditionally wired in a ring circuit with special conditions using cable that is actually too small for the fuse/circuit breaker.
This would not apply to a lighting circuit even if you did needlessly run the cable back to the CU.

We have also learned that because of this some people think 'ring' is just another word for circuit; it is not.

coylumbridge · 15 Sep 2021

EFLImpudence said:
It's nothing to do with what you are altering.

The point is that lighting circuits are not normally wired in a 'ring', i.e a cable from the consumer unit, around the house and back to the consumer unit to the same fuse/circuit breaker.

Only sockets in Britain (and some former colonies) are traditionally wired in a ring circuit with special conditions using cable that is actually too small for the fuse/circuit breaker.
This would not apply to a lighting circuit even if you did needlessly run the cable back to the CU.

We have also learned that because of this some people think 'ring' is just another word for circuit; it is not.

My apologies. I was using rather loose wording. We know the lights in the house aren't on a ring.

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Neutral query

Similar threads