Where to put wireless thermostat debate

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I've had the thermostat set up in my living room for the last 2 years. Having just bought a compressor dehumidifier which is more efficient at certain temperatures I'm curious as to temperatures in the hall and rest of the house.

Now to imagine the layout of the house. A small unheated single skin brick porch. Insulated roof and new composite door and pvc windows. Then a wooden door which is like the main house front door into the hall and stairs. Straight facing is the kitchen with no door on as the kitchen is tiny. In the kitchen is a door which would have been the old back door which goes into a utility room. Single skin brick. Polycarbonate roof. So it's freezing in winter in there. As you can imagine the space the thermostat is measuring if it was in the hall is huge. The hall. Kitchen. Landing. And even tho the door is closed it leads into the utility room and is only a wooden door. The hall rad is a 600 by 1600 type 21. The kitchen has a tiny type 11 600 by 400. If I place the thermostat in the hall it struggles to maintain a temp of 19. Usually between 18 and 19. If I set it at 19 it's on an awful lot

The living room is open plan. You come through one door and there is a large opening. The back the living area and the front the dining room. They are type 22 radiators. We have the thermostat as you come into the front room set at 21.5. When you open the front room door the temp drops and the heating comes on. Given the setup of the house is it better to have it in the living area? I don't know how else to combat the situation? We've had new windows and doors installed. Loft insulated. Cavity wall insulation. Is between 18 and 19 an ideal temperature for a hall or is it on the cold side?
 
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Questions first is type of boiler? Non modulating boilers use on/off thermostats only and only consideration is main room or room normally kept cool. This depends on if using TRV heads or not, direction of wind how it affects temperature, sun light through windows how that affects temperature. You don't want the thermostat turning off when other rooms still cold, so fitting for example in living room with large bay window would mean when sun comes out heating turns off early. There is nothing to stop two wall thermostats in parallel, so if wind changes which side of home is coolest you can use two thermostats, if TRV's fitted the wall thermostat set minimum temperature only, the TRV sets maximum temperature.

As you move to modulating boiler the whole idea changes, either use a modulating thermostat, or the on/off wall thermostat is only there to turn off boiler on warm days, on cold days it does nothing, the TRV is king.

The condensing boiler modulates to ensure the return water is cool enough to gain the latent heat from flue gases, if it is turned on/off with an external control every time it turns off heat lost out of flue, and every time turned on it does so flat out, so all the cleaver stuff to gain this extra heat will not work as the boiler can't modulate like it should.

So unless using a modulating wall thermostat, the wall thermostat is only in theory there to turn off boiler on warm days. In practice it is also used to turn down home temperature at set times, when we go out, or to bed for example, but while we want heat, the wall thermostat stays on. We are told in a room normally kept cool, on lower floor, with no outside door, and no TRV in that room, however that room often does not exist, so fitted in the hall which does have outside door, but also fit a TRV so speedy re-heat but slows down before it reaches the wall thermostat temperature.

So the two main controls are the TRV and lock shield valve. The radiators must have a temperature drop across them, this ensures the hot water is shared between all radiators, but it also gives time for the TRV head to adjust, if the lock shield valve was wide open, then as boiler starts the radiator would heat to maximum temperature, even if room not far below set temperature, and the TRV even when it closed would do nothing as radiator already hot, so room will over shoot, even with electronic TRV heads it can take 10 minutes for the TRV to adjust, so want it to take around 15 minutes to ½ hour to heat radiator fully, other wise one gets a hysteresis as it over shoots then over cools with a see saw effect.

The most important thing with central heating is the lock shield valve setting.

Also you must realise the TRV sets room temperature, air circulates in the room, so the temperature of the return air is the best temperature to measure to reflect the whole room temperature circulation3.jpg and the TRV is ideal placed to measure that. I use cheap electronic programmable TRV heads 61dmtMm13BL.jpg cost me £15 each, only down side is 18 x AA batteries every year. There are more expensive versions, this one IMGP8035.jpg connects to wifi, so I can see room temperature when away from home, and also use geofencing, I do check room temperature in the summer and decide if I want the AC on before I return home, and am told I can use IFTTT to get it to auto turn AC on, but heating wise I rely on the wall thermostat to turn whole boiler on/off so really being able to alter using wifi rather than blue tooth is very little advantage.

However the next stage is for the TRV to talk to a hub or wall thermostat to tell boiler when to run. There are many systems Hive, Evohome, Wiser etc. Some like Hive have limitations, Hive will only accept a demand for heat if under 22°C, so with Hive don't want wall thermostat in a room kept close to that or the system could fall over, needs to be in a room kept cool. Also clearly don't want that room to over heat, so does need a TRV in room with thermostat.

In the main we want to monitor two or three rooms carefully as sun or wind direction can change which rooms are coolest, so Hive wall thermostat and one Hive linked TRV head means two rooms monitored to decide if boiler runs, it is likely rest of rooms can have a cheap TRV head.

But re-heat time can be important, using iVector fan assisted radiators and a building management system we can heat and cool rooms quickly as very little water being circulated to be heated or cooled, and only when fan assisted can same radiator be used to heat and cool, however once you see the price you will realise why not used much, although may be more popular as heat pumps arrive. But what we are looking at is a lot cheaper, like the Wiser TRV head which is claimed to have algorithms so it can work out when to close to get the fastest reheat time without over shooting, so question is if worth it?

Looking at geofencing, to be any good, it needs to reheat rooms which are going to be used on arrival home in the time it takes you to travel home, so it will need to hold the room at a temperature which relates to your distance from home, if your travel time is one hour, then it needs to reach target in an hour, if it can raise temperature 5°C in an hour, and target is 22°C then it has to hold the room at 17°C while your out. If however only 2°C in an hour then 20°C while your out, this means often simple time is often better. So with the TRV head I have IMGP8035.jpg the anti-hysteresis is OTT so set at 22°C for an hour then 20°C to get room to 20°C so don't need the clever algorithms.

I have spent more time switching functions off on my Nest wall thermostat than anything else, hind sight a mistake, a simpler thermostat would have been better. Note I use oil so not a modulating boiler.

So we use a compromise to suit our home, and to do that you need to understand the system, I was intending to fit Nest in mothers house, first was to be Energenie MiHome TRV heads then Nest which at that time worked with those TRV heads, but the heads worked so well, never bothered with Nest, when house was sold new owners did not want the electronic TRV head so they were brought here, and I needed a wall thermostat so got Nest, however in the mean time Google had taken over Nest and it no longer works with Energenie MiHome TRV heads support has been withdrawn, so the cheap £15 bluetooth 61dmtMm13BL.jpg actually work better than the Energenie MiHome TRV heads. I keep repeating this I hope people learn from my error. Don't get me wrong Nest Gen 3 works well, and once the remote temperature sensors are released in UK it will work better.

For my brother-in-law who has family in Germany and lives up the road from me in Mid Wales geofencing will likely work well re-heating home as he lands in Manchester and travels to 100 miles to Mid Wales, but to be frank not that hard to get out phone and manually set, for the few times a year when geofencing works likely not worth it.

Using TRV heads I can set a sequence, so boiler fires, and kitchen TRV opens, 15 minutes latter dinning room one opens, 30 minutes latter living room one opens, and 2 hours latter bedroom ones open, so heat directed to rooms as required, needs over sized radiators to work well, but with a house on three levels so not small, I use a 18 kW oil boiler. It is the programmable TRV heads which allows such a small boiler to reheat a large house in the time scale I require.
 
That is some great detail ericmark. Thank you

All the rads have trvs except the bathroom and kitchen and utility room. They are lockshield. Il do a drawing of the downstairs as to where the stat is and doors and openings. I've moved the thermostat into the hall today to monitor what the temp is during the day when the heating is off. It's a wireless thermostat which I'm guessing you've guessed because it's easy to move. It's a condensing boiler. The stat is programmable as to times when heating comes on and when it goes off. So we have it set from half 6 until 10 in a morning at 21.4 in the living room. Then 10 until 3 is set at 19. Then from 3 until 10 It's 21.4. You can't set it to off you set times and times. Through the nights it's set to 12 but the heating never comes on which is what we want. So from 10 until half 6 it's set to 12 degrees. Il do a drawing of the house layout
 
The space where the stat is located, should not be fitted with a TRV. Failing that, you can simply removed the head of a TRV and it will have the same effect as no TRV being fitted.
 
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I forgot to say all trvs are fully open and set to max. Here is a pic of the house layout
 

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