Hotpoint Oven cutting electrics to entire house

alan.1 · 6 Jan 2022

bernardgreen said:
If (a) then the fault is most likely in the appliance

It is indeed (a), it is a gas cooker. The house cuts out as soon as the oven is plugged in and is turned on. This is with every feature on the cooker being off, I don't have to be using the ignition or anything, it simply cuts out as soon as it is turned on at the plug.
Regarding a photo of the unit, it's just a standard gas cooker, the only uses of electricity is in the ignition, the bulb and the little clock/alarm display.

Not sure what the whole RCD situation is as you've lost me a little there, the house has periodic inspections of the electrics and everything was in order last time it was checked.

JohnD said:
You say it has a plug and fuse. Is it a gas cooker?

It is indeed.

johnny2007 said:
Not an electrician, but I was presented with this problem many times.
50% of the times a cable in the oven connection outlet or isolating switch was loose and tightening it fixed the fault.
Have a look but of course, turn electricity off at the consumer unit first.

Here is a photo of all the bits and pieces involved with the cooker. Apologies for the cleanliness of these, this isn't my kitchen, I'm simply doing a favour for somebody.
I've unscrewed all three of them and had a peek but everything seems to be in order to my untrained eye. Could the fault perhaps be here?

Harry Bloomfield said:
Does it also trip the RCD when plugged in, but the switch on the socket is off?
Does it also trip when everything on the oven is turned off, but it is plugged in and turned on at the socket?

It only trips when it is plugged in and turned on at the socket, if it is plugged in and off at the socket then all is fine.

Taylortwocities said:
There goes another OP, scared away by needless debate interspersed with a post almost as long as War and Peace.

Apologies, I've just been incredibly busy and haven't had the time to respond. Thank you for all your replies.

JohnD · 6 Jan 2022

As it has a socket, unplug the cooker and plug in some other appliance, such as a kettle. Does this cause a trip?

Does the cooker have the original factory-fitted plug?

alan.1 · 6 Jan 2022

JohnD said:
As it has a socket, unplug the cooker and plug in some other appliance, such as a kettle. Does this cause a trip?

Does the cooker have the original factory-fitted plug?

I've tried different appliances on it just now, all seem to work fine, then tried the cooker and everything tripped again as soon as I turned the socket on.
Also have to make a correction to my original post, it isn't the entire house going out at one time, some things stay on, some go out.

Here's a picture of my breaker panel if it helps at all. The switch outlined in red flipped to the down position once the cooker was turned on.

I read a reply to a similar issue on another forum asking them to plug it into a 'non-RCD way' as these elements "can absorb moisture if not used for a while", I'm assuming this means just plug the cooker into an ordinary socket and see what happens. Should I try this now?

JohnD · 6 Jan 2022

No point but you can if you want. Looking at your consumer unit all your circuits are RCD protected.

The "absorption of moisture" applies to cookers with electric heating elements, not gas. This includes dual-fuel cookers, but it happens when you turn them on, not when you plug them in.

So the fault is in the plug, or the flex, or the cooker.

If the plug (or flex) is non-original it might be incorrectly wired.

Sometimes in a kitchen a rodent gnaws wiring, possibly inside the cooker

If the cooker has metal feet in contact with a damp concrete floor there is a faint chance of a house earth fault

There is a chance that there might be damp in the cooker from over-generous washdown.

alan.1 · 6 Jan 2022

JohnD said:
-

Is there any way for an amateur to isolate/narrow down which component in the cooker itself is causing problems?
Or perhaps buying a plug and cable and just rewiring the thing myself?
Thinking it may just be worth replacing the darn thing altogether.

I'm thinking this might literally be the electric clock at fault since its the only electrical part that turns on immediately upon turning the appliance on, everything else is idle.

johnny2007 · 6 Jan 2022

alan.1 said:
Here is a photo of all the bits and pieces involved with the cooker. Apologies for the cleanliness of these, this isn't my kitchen, I'm simply doing a favour for somebody.
I've unscrewed all three of them and had a peek but everything seems to be in order to my untrained eye. Could the fault perhaps be here?

Did you check that all clamping screws were tight?
That's what I meant.
If all is ok and other appliances don't trip, it's definitely something wrong with the cooker.
I would eliminate simple things like plug wiring, damaged flex wire and internal connection.

alan.1 · 6 Jan 2022

johnny2007 said:
Did you check that all clamping screws were tight?
That's what I meant.
If all is ok and other appliances don't trip, it's definitely something wrong with the cooker.
I would eliminate simple things like plug wiring, damaged flex wire and internal connection.

Definitely something with the cooker. Can't open the plug up unfortunately. Cable and plug seem fine otherwise, opened up the terminal block and that all looks perfect. Think the rest is over my head, too troublesome without calling an electrician and it won't be worth it, may as well buy a whole new appliance.

JohnD · 6 Jan 2022

alan.1 said:
Is there any way for an amateur to isolate/narrow down which component in the cooker itself is causing problems?
Or perhaps buying a plug and cable and just rewiring the thing myself?
Thinking it may just be worth replacing the darn thing altogether.

I'm thinking this might literally be the electric clock at fault since its the only electrical part that turns on immediately upon turning the appliance on, everything else is idle.

I think Johnny's suggestions are more likely but by all means try to trace it.

There may be damage that you can spot by eye.

What has happened since it last worked?

Has the plug been wet?

Have you moved house?

Harry Bloomfield · 6 Jan 2022

alan.1 said:
Is there any way for an amateur to isolate/narrow down which component in the cooker itself is causing problems?
Or perhaps buying a plug and cable and just rewiring the thing myself?
Thinking it may just be worth replacing the darn thing altogether.

I'm thinking this might literally be the electric clock at fault since its the only electrical part that turns on immediately upon turning the appliance on, everything else is idle.

That is a wrong assumption to make. As I think I said earlier, an RCD can be caused to trip by either a live to earth leak, or a neutral to earth leakage.

Most appliance switches, switches on the actual appliance, normally turn the live off, but leave the neutral connected. I suspect that switch on the wall in the photo adjacent to the socket is a double pole switch, hence turning that off cures the trip.

Have you any sort of test meter, able to measure resistances? One _might_ help show up the fault, if you were to measure the resistance at the plug pins(unplugged), measuring between L and E, N and E.

Other than that, the only way to trace the fault/the leakage, is by completely disconnecting (both L and N) various parts of the oven, as a process of elimination.

flameport · 6 Jan 2022

The cooker may be repairable, but not by any electrician - gas cooker repairs can only be done by a Gas Safe registered person, who is also listed as being able to work on gas cookers.

winston1 · 6 Jan 2022

flameport said:
The cooker may be repairable, but not by any electrician - gas cooker repairs can only be done by a Gas Safe registered person, who is also listed as being able to work on gas cookers.

Surely that only applies to the gas parts of the cooker.

flameport · 6 Jan 2022

Theoretically yes - but you can't do much dismantling of a gas cooker before the gas parts are in the way.

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Hotpoint Oven cutting electrics to entire house

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