D
Deleted member 292770
Finally we agree. post biblical scale vaccination roll out things got a whole lot worse.
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Have to say I find too much of the "scientific opinion", or the way it's put across, has been bull. It started with the line that we had to wash our hands and we'd be ok, when masks would have been far more appropriate, but we didn't have them. And, was it a "fortress" round the care homes? And so it went on, until recently Whitty came out with his "same place" crap.
It was bleedin obvious from the SA figures that Omicron wasn't going to be anything like delta, but it was ridiculously recently, here, that some expert puppet said there were "signs it might be a less serious disease." Geddaway, sigh.
I posted it here early December, and it was Dingwall mid Dec said
"My gut feeling is that omicron is very much like the sort of flu pandemic we planned for – a lot of sickness absence from work in a short period, which will create difficulties for public services and economic activity, but not of such a severity as to be a big problem for the NHS and the funeral business.”
But that wasn't the government line.
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In SA, for a long time they were testing all deaths and saying they hadn't got any omicrons. Zero. Here we're sort of expected to believe there are hundreds now. Numbers are quoted in the news, while the Experts aren't saying much. Seems to me they're lying by omission.
Look:
number of cases in the community from random testing, 4.3 million (6.7%)*. So if you allow for some cases which LFT didn't see, that's maybe about 10% of the population. It lasts around 5 days, so every 5 days would be a different 10%, through December into Jan so we've pretty much all had it.
In week 51 the ONS say 12,000 people died altogether. 797 people died with omicron mentioned. Well that's 6.7%, what would you expect if it wasn't killing anyone? 6.7%?, 10%.
So I looked at excess uk deaths. No discernible rise, Jan relative to October.¶
SA Excess deaths, "almost negligible", https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...main-flat-south-africa-sparking-hope-omicron/ Their vaccination rate is of course lower - and no boosters there until it was all over.
* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59968078
This mythbusting article https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicron-survival-rate-idUSL1N2T72E6
says "multiple, worldwide". Probably dead right - multiple of what though...
Well I'm sure there must be some, especially amongst the unvaccinated,
but :
has anyone seen a number for the UK?
I'm still looking. Edit See below - the BBC state a ratio - no valid reference.
Edit: ONS ¶
There is stuff for "deaths involving". Does that mean +within 28 days?
Well that should rise though December, as more of the population became +ve.
It doesn't follow the case numbers though:
This show the excess deaths number -
The rightmost column doesn't show a consistent rise, does it.
Later figures may show something (not out yet).
The all-deaths excess does rise, which may indicate hospital pressure is killing people. That did happen for delta
Same figs - the blue bit does NOT get taller during December:
EDit2
I have found this - assertions without any references. Reference given does not cover what they say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60000391?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA
Finally found a paper from SA ascribing deaths to omicron
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm
/SSRN_ID3996320_code2380010.pdf?abstractid=3996320&mirid=1
31% of those in hospital were vaccinated.
mortality was 6% of hospital admissions, =258 people.
It was bleedin obvious from the SA figures that Omicron wasn't going to be anything like delta, but it was ridiculously recently, here, that some expert puppet said there were "signs it might be a less serious disease." Geddaway, sigh.
I posted it here early December, and it was Dingwall mid Dec said
"My gut feeling is that omicron is very much like the sort of flu pandemic we planned for – a lot of sickness absence from work in a short period, which will create difficulties for public services and economic activity, but not of such a severity as to be a big problem for the NHS and the funeral business.”
But that wasn't the government line.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In SA, for a long time they were testing all deaths and saying they hadn't got any omicrons. Zero. Here we're sort of expected to believe there are hundreds now. Numbers are quoted in the news, while the Experts aren't saying much. Seems to me they're lying by omission.
Look:
number of cases in the community from random testing, 4.3 million (6.7%)*. So if you allow for some cases which LFT didn't see, that's maybe about 10% of the population. It lasts around 5 days, so every 5 days would be a different 10%, through December into Jan so we've pretty much all had it.
In week 51 the ONS say 12,000 people died altogether. 797 people died with omicron mentioned. Well that's 6.7%, what would you expect if it wasn't killing anyone? 6.7%?, 10%.
So I looked at excess uk deaths. No discernible rise, Jan relative to October.¶
SA Excess deaths, "almost negligible", https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-...main-flat-south-africa-sparking-hope-omicron/ Their vaccination rate is of course lower - and no boosters there until it was all over.
* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59968078
This mythbusting article https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicron-survival-rate-idUSL1N2T72E6
says "multiple, worldwide". Probably dead right - multiple of what though...
Well I'm sure there must be some, especially amongst the unvaccinated,
but :
has anyone seen a number for the UK?
I'm still looking. Edit See below - the BBC state a ratio - no valid reference.
Edit: ONS ¶
There is stuff for "deaths involving". Does that mean +within 28 days?
Well that should rise though December, as more of the population became +ve.
It doesn't follow the case numbers though:
This show the excess deaths number -
The rightmost column doesn't show a consistent rise, does it.
Later figures may show something (not out yet).
The all-deaths excess does rise, which may indicate hospital pressure is killing people. That did happen for delta
Same figs - the blue bit does NOT get taller during December:
EDit2
I have found this - assertions without any references. Reference given does not cover what they say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-60000391?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA
Finally found a paper from SA ascribing deaths to omicron
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm
/SSRN_ID3996320_code2380010.pdf?abstractid=3996320&mirid=1
31% of those in hospital were vaccinated.
mortality was 6% of hospital admissions, =258 people.
Last edited:
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Some stoopid from that BBC article:
"The daily death figure will be a tricky measure to follow in the coming weeks says Prof Sylvia Richardson, president of the Royal Statistical Society, since it can be so influenced by how many people have tested positive recently."
So how does the number testing positive affect the daily death number?
"She thinks the number of deaths caused by coronavirus, based on death registrations, is the "best number to watch".
I already quoted from it. It gives with covid, not from covid.
It doesn't cover post 31/12/2021 either.
"The daily death figure will be a tricky measure to follow in the coming weeks says Prof Sylvia Richardson, president of the Royal Statistical Society, since it can be so influenced by how many people have tested positive recently."
So how does the number testing positive affect the daily death number?
"She thinks the number of deaths caused by coronavirus, based on death registrations, is the "best number to watch".
I already quoted from it. It gives with covid, not from covid.
It doesn't cover post 31/12/2021 either.
So what? The whole world has been severally bitten by covid generally and you know what they say - once bitten, twice shy. Better too many precautions and people moaning about that, than too few and risking more deaths, illnesses and hospitals inundated.
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Are the cowards still whinging about a harmless vaccine, lol. Pussies.
Let's imagine just to be open minded, that in a few years time the jabs is found to be negatively affecting the human body.
Would the jabbed admit that rushing to be inoculated was wrong?
I bet they won't.
Remember, the same people who strongly criticised the government and said they were a bunch of posh ******rs, as soon as they heard about covid, started following all the government advice.
One minute those in power were incompetent, unfit to run the country, thinking only about themselves and their multimillionaire friends, looking after multinational corporations and screwing us all, the next minute they became concerned about us, our heath and in general they totally changed their ways...
Is this a rational belief?
Would the jabbed admit that rushing to be inoculated was wrong?
I bet they won't.
Remember, the same people who strongly criticised the government and said they were a bunch of posh ******rs, as soon as they heard about covid, started following all the government advice.
One minute those in power were incompetent, unfit to run the country, thinking only about themselves and their multimillionaire friends, looking after multinational corporations and screwing us all, the next minute they became concerned about us, our heath and in general they totally changed their ways...
Is this a rational belief?
D
Deleted member 292770
sounds like mummys big tough builder soldier is afraid of getting a cold.
Although it is tough undergoround being eye level with the road all day
No it wasn’t.
in the absence of data you can’t make decisions based on opinions.
and remember, if it was bad and no preparation had been done…..then retrospective changes would’ve been too late.
if the deaths or side effects from the vaccine are worse than from Covid, then yes Inwill be happy to admit I was wrong.
But since the current data proves vaccines saves lives, the anti vaxxers have to admit they are wrong now.
Do you have any ability to debate as an adult?
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You are fixated with the government. Follow the science...
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Grow up.
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Your pants are on fire again. Unless you....oh nevermind.
I've been jabbed for a few other preventable diseases too. No point being a thick moron and keeping my fingers crossed instead.
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The So What, appears to be that the numbers HMG are letting us believe, are groundless.
You might not have looked at the data but you can't assert that others are ignorant just because you are.
The numbers coming out of SA were clear enough.
HMG has a history in this of not being truthful. They're apparently giving us duff info about numbers dying. Right now, what's the point of that?
All it produces is, for example, people on here claiming there are hundreds dying of covid every day, looking daft. No evidence of that, at all. It's fuel for antivaxx nutters.
If it was all about vaccines, why not tell us the numbers dying of covid who were not vaccinated? Maybe because it's a tiny number which would motivate nobody?
I hope we get some sort of truth.
If you read around you'll see stories of a flu-covid hybrid, and an omicron-delta hybrid. More vaccines?
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