Extending Cables

Medcraft · 19 Jul 2007

I am having a new kitchen fitted. My current sockets are too high I need to lower them. I am unable to run new cable because I have just lowered the ceiling and the old ceiling is still in place above it. Is there a way I can safely extend these cables.

Chivers7 · 19 Jul 2007

Crimp and shrink wrap - all ok as long as cables remain within safe zones.

sparky23 · 19 Jul 2007

Personally i would not extend cables. The regs say that all joins must be made accessible. Can you not go down under floor boards instead of ceiling

equitum · 19 Jul 2007

sparky23 said:
The regs say that all joins must be made accessible.

Not quite true.

Reg 526-04-01: Except for the following every connection or joint shall be accessible for inspection, testing and maintenance:

(iii) a joint made by welding, soldering, brazing or compression tool

JohnD · 19 Jul 2007

(iii{a}) except joints made under the supervision of holmslaw

EdwardCurrent · 19 Jul 2007

Hi

Isn't it only screwed connections (j.b's etc) that need to be accessible ?

As stated, crimps, heat shrink, and safe zones sounds good to me.

ps

epending on the layout of the outlets, and how far you want to go, you may be able to just extend two of the legs, then run new cabling so you can have sockets where you want them,( so long as the mcb/fuse rating is ok and the circuit test's out correctly etc) ??

Part P is a factor here too

Cheers
Ed.

equitum · 19 Jul 2007

JohnD said:
(iii{a}) except joints made under the supervision of holmslaw

Did a little searching on previous quotes from said author. I assume the above reg is from BS7671 2001 ammended 2000-and-holmslaw

Now I did find that post humorous !!

holmslaw · 20 Jul 2007

Softus · 20 Jul 2007

holmslaw said:
To the op sparky 23 has gieven you the correct advice.

Many people think he hasn't.

As I expected you guys who believe soldering and crimping is acceptable have taken one reg and interpreted it with a total disregard to any other reg.
See iee reg 526-03-03.

How on Earth do you expect the OP to know what that regulation says?

Soldering and crimping is definitley not acceptable in the way you guys use it.

Oh yes it is.

Behind you!

Lectrician · 20 Jul 2007

NEW kitchen - loose original wiring where possible. Run new wiring clipped direct below worktop height, chase up to sockets.

New ceiling in the way? A little thought would have helped! It's all logistics!

JohnD · 20 Jul 2007

Holmslaw, were you thinking of something about cables that have had their sheath removed being re-protected with with fire-resistant material, which might be a sleeving, or an enclosure, and may be part of the material of the building structure?

Is that is some way incompatible with the use of a crimped joint?

This being a DIY site, people here are invariably interested in making additions and modifications to their house circuits, most often adding a socket or a new light fitting.

Crimps are often recommended here, especially when the poster suggests (as they frequently do) making his joint in a junction box, poking it under the floor and making it inaccessible with laminated flooring. What's your recommendation to such a person?

Hint: Recommendations that the DIY person refuses to follow are ineffective.

Edited: Sorry, I missed that this squabble is already going on in another threadl

sparky23 · 20 Jul 2007

Holmslaw is correct. If people start putting crimped connections or any other type of connections in a wall that is to be plastered over it is not good workmanship. put it in this instance if you were chasing a wall out and you came across joints buried in the plaster you would say to yourself what cowboy has done this?.

equitum · 20 Jul 2007

sparky23 said:
Holmslaw is correct. If people start putting crimped connections or any other type of connections in a wall that is to be plastered over it is not good workmanship. put it in this instance if you were chasing a wall out and you came across joints buried in the plaster you would say to yourself what cowboy has done this?.

At some point surely you have to take a balanced view of the effectiveness of a joint, if its determined by the IEE and therefore in BS7671 as appropriate for a concealed joint, then personally I am happy with that.

Where do you draw the line ? Perhaps we should all do what holmslaw dictates as acceptable (should he publish his own standard that is), or ayone else with an opinion for that matter.

It all comes back to what is known as an approved british or otherwise standard

sparky23 · 20 Jul 2007

Lets just agree to disagree. this could go on for ages

ColJack · 20 Jul 2007

holmslaw said:
To the op sparky 23 has gieven you the correct advice.
As I expected you guys who believe soldering and crimping is acceptable have taken one reg and interpreted it with a total disregard to any other reg.
See iee reg 526-03-03.
Soldering and crimping is definitley not acceptable in the way you guys use it.

To paraphrase...

[code:1]526-03-03: Cores of sheathed cables from which the sheath has been removed... ( blah, blah, blah ) .. shall be enclosed as required by Regulation 526-03-02[/code:1]

needs to be in an enclosure if the outer sheath has been stripped...

[code:1]526-03-02: Every termination and joint in a live conductor or a PEN conductor shall be made within one of the following or a combination thereof:

(i) blah
(ii) blah
(iii) blah
(iv) an enclosure formed or completed with building material considered to be non-combustible when tested to BS 476-4
(v) an enclosure formed or completed as part of the building structure, having the ignitability characteristic "P" as specified in BS 476 part 5[/code:1]

So, by my reconing, plaster is prety much non combustible.. so plastering it into a wall is allowed..

however, it does seem that just crimping and heat shrinking in a floor void for instance is a no no.. unless you put the crimp connection in a non combustible enclosure

I'm not disagreeing with you Holmslaw.. I would definitely prefer to see a cable replaced rather than crimped.. but in some circumstances there is no other choice..

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Extending Cables

EdwardCurrent

holmslaw

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