No gas, no oil

samtheman1k · 31 Oct 2007

Hi all, we have a problem.

We have just moved into a small 3 bed semi. Unfortunately, to access the house we need to cross the neighbour's land. We currently have storage heaters installed, but they are big, bulky and expensive to run (and are cold in the evening!).

We are off the gas mains, and cannot get oil as the rights of access to our house do not allow us to get the tank filled (have checked with a solicitor). So, we are only left with the following options:

Electric central heating
ASHP/GSHP
Solid fuel

We are worried about the cost of electric central heating. We have looked at the Gledhill Electramate thermal store which may help, but still feel that it will cost a packet. ASHP don't seem to be powerfull enough and GSHP too expensive to install.

So we were wondering if anyone had any experience of solid fuel stoves (with back boilers)?

We don't have a chimney, so would need a flue installed...is that an option or would that be prohibitively expensive? How about installation costs of the actual stove? Do we need a hearth?

Anyone else solved the no gas/oil problem?????

Thanks!
Sam

Terrywookfit · 31 Oct 2007

Do your rights of access allow you to dig up the surrounding area to install a gshp?

How will you have your solid fuel delivered if you have no access??

W T F did you buy such a property ????

samtheman1k · 31 Oct 2007

We have rights of access for normal use, including deliveries, but are not allowed to lay a pipe across the neighbour's land, even if only temporary. The GSHP pipes could be laid in our land.

bobthebender · 31 Oct 2007

Do you hace access to timber/logs etc ?
Put in a villager Berkley multi fuel stove (burns logs and coal) with a 20,00 btu back boiler .........£600
This will give you hot water and heat 3 reasonable size rads.
Stick in an immersion for boosting the domestic hot water when needed and a twin wall flue (expensive) up the outside wall.
What area do you live ?

Terrywookfit · 31 Oct 2007

I cannot give advice on gshp as I feel the outlay does not justify the savings.(no figures are ever quoted for ongoing malntenence or longevity)
Also in no way is it GREEN due to the way our electricity is generated!!

If it was my choice I would opt for solid fuel !!

Probably a Trianco hopper fed which give sensible refuelling cycles!!

No doubt the ones who actually install ground/air source and solar will see it differently !!
Unless you want to single handedly try to save the world or you have unlimited funds at your disposal I would advise you to tread warily !

GforceJames · 31 Oct 2007

Why not use LPG then you can have either a bulk tank or cylinders and use normal converted gas appliances.

James

Nige F · 31 Oct 2007

IF you`re within travelling distance of Ashford Kent, there`s a good multifuel cooker heating boiler going for a reasonable ££

Gasguru · 31 Oct 2007

Talk to your neighbour, for a price he may be willing to change the covenant.

Is it just the size of the vehicle he is worried about? Smaller tankers are available.

Bargeman · 31 Oct 2007

Hello,

Installing a wood or multi fuel stove with back boiler should be a very practical option. However the main issue you will come across will be the drop in efficiency of combustion that occurs as the CH takes heat away from the stove. Some stoves are better than others at coping with this and it is best to look long and hard and get specific product advice.

Given that you don't have a wet radiator system you may find it more practical and less costly to install the stove without a back boiler and use it for room heating only. A decent 5kW roomheater will go a long way towards providing most of the room heating for a small property, and will reduce the storage heating input. Otherwise you will need to install a vented heat distribution system and the costs may start to mount up.

Difficult to estimate the cost of the flue, but an initial guessitmate would be between £1,000 and £1,500 for professional installation (approx £750 for DIY). If you do self install you will need to notify building control and submit plans etc.

regards

gas4you · 31 Oct 2007

If you went for an LPG set up you could use the standard 4 x 47Kg bottle set up.

These could then be delivered and brought down your access route on a sack barrow

I can't beleive that you are not allowed to have an oil tanker or LPG filling pipe reeled out for the few minutes it takes to fill the tank or bulk cylinder though.

Are you sure you explained exactly your needs to your solicitor?

GforceJames · 31 Oct 2007

The filling hoses on lpg and oil tankers, are very long. In most cases the operators leave the trucks on the public road and run the hoses out.

My parents oil tank is very far away from vehicle access and must be about 45m away they just reel out the hose from the road.

James

bripl · 31 Oct 2007

oil and bulk gas tanks must have a clear sightline when being refilled most tankers have a 30m max hose reel.four bottles is a ferkin expensive way of using lpg.just a quick example four bottles doing a customer of mine costs them around 200 a month to heat a medium sized three bed detached house.must admit it is a poorly insulated and no temp controls.boiler is a ideal classic 80.my choice would be a pellet burner with underground storage
http://www.heattech.ie/Downloads/WoodPelletBoiler/Wood Pellet Boiler Customer Info.pdf
hope the link helps.

Balenza · 31 Oct 2007

samtheman1k wrote

Unfortunately, to access the house we need to cross the neighbour's land

So do you use a 4x4 or a tractor or just walk across his land or perhaps you use horses ?
Fields can get pretty messy in the winter time.

We have rights of access for normal use, including deliveries

Then whats the problem with an oil delivery ?.

Agile · 31 Oct 2007

If you have vehicle access then why can you not have oil or LPG delivered to a tank?

Are you really sure that you understand the covenant or access rights Agreement?

Usually a payment can be negotiated to grant a wayleave for a gas pipe.

The water, gas and electricity providers have powers to obtain wayleaves but will not usually use them for individuals.

Tony

Nixt · 31 Oct 2007

A proper wood pellet boiler may be physically too large for the property described. Therefore a wood pellet 'wet stove' might be the answer. You can find them in 8, 10, 12 and even 20kW versions. Look at www.logpile.co.uk for manufacturers & suppliers.

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No gas, no oil

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