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So that's what you propose? Mass uprisings?

Bash on ...

I'm sure the utopian world you envisage thereafter will be completely devoid of any wrongdoing against the masses ;)
I didn’t propose it, in fact you suggested it was a possibility not me. Either way , if you’re happy to bend over and take it like a good little boy.
bash on!
Or maybe ‘get bashed on’ is more appropriate.
 
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JP_

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The point is, you can moan about the government all you like, but unless you make a case for an alternative, you are the one bending over and taking it. Personally, I won't be voting Tory, that will certainly help a bit if they are no longer in power. What are others doing?
 
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The point is, you can moan about the government all you like, but unless you make a case for an alternative, you are the one bending over and taking it. Personally, I won't be voting Tory, that will certainly help a bit if they are no longer in power. What are others doing?
Exactly. I would LOVE to know what the alternative socioeconomic model is from all those that say we're wrong 'for taking it all' and not doing anything about it.

I couldn't care less if people call me a pessimist, what's the blo0dy point trying to make significant (as in genuinely significant) changes to our current model? Those then in charge of 'the new regime' would be as susceptible to power, greed and corruption as those they replaced.

Anyone who thinks we can create a truly fair, truly equal, non corrupt, non sleaze model is quite frankly living in CLOUD CUCKOO LAND ;)
 

JP_

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Our current system isn't really much different from a dictatorship - we vote for people based on lives, and for many people, even if the person they vote for wins locally, they have no real voice in government.

Maybe we need more powers at local government? I really don't know anywhere near enough about politics to discuss this, but a good old friend in Switzerland is very positive about their system, so much so he has now been there about 17 years and has no plans to return. Apparently lots of power at local level, and lots of referendums / votes on local and national issues. It's not just case of vote once and hope you don't get another lying greedy pig in charge.
 
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you support capitalism Andy.
thats what capitalism is: its greed.
you support free markets where bug business can give loads of money to politicians in exchange for juicy contracts

with capitalism you get politicians with vested self interest



Its odd how a raving capitalist, you hate capitalism and actually left wing social democracy policies would solve the problems you complain about

There you go again. This thing you call "capitalism" is part of the natural course of human life and always has been. It is not an -ism. Isms are unnatural, anti-human schemes devised by evil madmen. The behaviour you describe politicians and big businesses engaging in is corruption and crime, which occurs in the absence of law enforcement and punishment.

Oh, I forgot, you lefties don't believe in punishment.
 
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What do you propose we do?
I don't know, but I do know that the political class, labour and the conservatives, are the problem. A starting point would be to wake the people up to what is happening, which is that we are slowly being robbed of our wealth and our freedom. The people are apathetic and the mainstream media will not help. In Romania the people marched on the government building, took out the president and killed him. I'm not advocating any killings, but certainly there needs to be a mobilisation of people against the state.
The inflation rate at the official 9%
That is a price index and not the inflation rate. The word inflation has been corrupted and altered to hide its real meaning. It literally means "abnormal increase in the quantity of money in relation to goods available for purchase". The government do the inflating, not the merchants.

The change in defintion is to hide the evil that governments do with the currency.

Quantitative easing my foot.
 
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The behaviour you describe politicians and big businesses engaging in is corruption and crime
Yes its corruption enabled by free market libertarianism.

If you want to get rid of corruption in politics you need increased state control
 
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Oh, I forgot, you lefties don't believe in punishment
Punishment doesn’t stop crime.

inequality and poverty is directly related to crime.

tell me Andy how much did the crime rate go down in America when it increased the number of people in prison from 200,000 to 2 million?
 
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I don't know, but I do know that the political class, labour and the conservatives, are the problem. A starting point would be to wake the people up to what is happening, which is that we are slowly being robbed of our wealth and our freedom. The people are apathetic and the mainstream media will not help. In Romania the people marched on the government building, took out the president and killed him. I'm not advocating any killings, but certainly there needs to be a mobilisation of people against the state.

That is a price index and not the inflation rate. The word inflation has been corrupted and altered to hide its real meaning. It literally means "abnormal increase in the quantity of money in relation to goods available for purchase". The government do the inflating, not the merchants.

The change in defintion is to hide the evil that governments do with the currency.

Quantitative easing my foot.
Thanks
 
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Yes its corruption enabled by free market libertarianism.

If you want to get rid of corruption in politics you need increased state control
It always seemed obvious to me that if you have capitalism, you will have to deal with the corruption, as certainly as if you have guns, you have to deal with people shooting people.

It should be possible to have a body responsible for looking out for and penalising corruption in government. It becomes "who polices the police" but If there were enough transparency it should at least reduce the problem.

There would be a case for including the country's wealthiest individuals and companies. There are only a couple of hundred billionaires in the country. They'd be a start. The richest
"The richest person on the list is Sir Len Blavatnik, a Ukrainian-born businessman who made his money from energy and aluminium groups in the former Soviet Union." Well Ukraine has been the most corrupt country in Europe for some time... after Russia,, natch.

We'd be about 10th least corrupt from that list, and for our GDP, the least corrupt.

Is there a "model" government of a comparably sized country you can cite?
 
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