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16 amp workshop socket

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by flatroofer666, 10 Sep 2011.

  1. flatroofer666

    flatroofer666

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    hello chaps...just finnished building my workshop at home which has a supply from the house fuseboard (30 amp cable) to the workshops own double RCD box..one for the lights and one for the sockets,now my new 250 amp welder and plasma cutter has come with the blue 16 amp plugs on and although ive got a 16A-13A extension when i up the power they keep blowing the 13A fuses :mad: my question is can i wire in a designated 16A socket from my workshop RCD board and how????
     
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  3. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    On start up the inrush current to your welder is too high for the 13A fuse.
    Could you have the supply to your welder on a designated circuit?

    I guess it's a type b breaker protecting the circuit?
    Type c breakers deal with inrush current better.
     
  4. flatroofer666

    flatroofer666

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    thats what ime asking and how :)
     
  5. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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  6. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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  7. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Err..

    No, it isn't. It's your installation and your welder, so we don't know the answers to any of these questions or the validity of these assumptions:
    • On start up the inrush current to your welder is too high for the 13A fuse.
    • Could you have the supply to your welder on a designated circuit?
    • I guess it's a type b breaker protecting the circuit?

    But you do (or should).

    It's us asking you.
     
  8. westie101

    westie101

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    Come on guys the op has asked can he wire a spur terminating in a 16A socket for equipment that has come fitted with a 16A plug.
    The bit about blowing fuses was an add on to indicate that any suggestion of making a 13A to 16A adaptor would not work!

    In answer to the initial question yes!
     
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  9. flatroofer666

    flatroofer666

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    thanks for that mate,you have my question sorted with your no nonsense reply...cheers.

    Ban all sheds You my friend are a typical internet smartarse and typical of the bellends ive met along my long and twisty path of 35 years in the roofing and biulding industry...i joined this forum a while ago to try offer my experience to people with flat roofing problems and genuinly help them but was put off by forum users of your sort who compound a genuine question with your ability to look and sound a 1st class tosser :mad:
     
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  11. Monkeh

    Monkeh

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    I'm pretty sure you can't just take a spur off a ring for a 16A socket. A load of that size should have its own circuit.
     
  12. PrenticeBoyofDerry

    PrenticeBoyofDerry

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    I thought my link to the commando socket and my previous post would have given you enough info!
    Install this socket to supply power to your welder.
    16A MCB type C in you workshop CU, would deal with inrush current
    Cable that can carry 16A supply, 2.5mm T&E or 3 core flex will be more than adequate.

    Isolate power
    Fix Cable/flex and socket securely.
    Terminate cable/flex to socket
    Test for continuity, R1+R2 or R2, IR at the garage CU check polarity at socket outlet.
    Then terminate brown core to MCB, Blue core to neutral busbar and earth/cpc to earth busbar.
    Power up and test for live polarity, Ze, PSCC, Zs, RCD
    Zs should be less than 1.16 ohms
     
  13. securespark

    securespark

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    Before putting in a type C, he would need assurance the EFLI is low enough.
     
  14. ericmark

    ericmark

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    If the welder will run from a B32 MCB then it will also run from a C16 MCB as the magnet part of the trips will trip at the same current.

    However the 13A fuse will take a fair in rush [​IMG] looking at these curves the 160A required to trip a B32 or C16 MCB can be handled for around 0.06 seconds with a 13A fuse so there is no guarantee that a C16 will hold.

    With the moving core type of welding machine turning to low setting before turning on does help.

    Most people want to move the welder and to need a dedicated supply really limits the use one can put the welder to. Most of the welders I have used designed to be portable use a switch mode system and are refereed to as inverters rather than transformers. These have a build in soft start and can run with a 13A fuse far longer than the old transformer type.

    But standard with a welder is 25 volt plus 1 volt per 25A so at 250A the running volts will be approx 35 volt at 250A = 8.75kW at 230v this is around 38A which is well over double what a 16A MCB can provide. And that's also true for an inverter which is greater than whole supply to garage.

    I have seen this before where welders have come with completely the wrong size plug. I would guess the plug has been fitted by the importer?

    You do need to read the plate of course but I would suspect you will need a 32A outlet not 16A.

    Not used a plasma cutter but have used Air Arc and that really does load up the units in the past I have needed to run welders in tandem to get the current required which would melt 35mm cables had to be at least 50mm better at 70mm. These are real beasts and we always used motor driven because of the power required.

    A 13A supply max around 105A output
    A 16A supply max around 125A output
    A 30A supply max around 210A output
    A 32A supply max around 220A output

    And this is not allowing for in-rush or losses so seems you have been sold a pup! Sorry but better you know now before you spend out more.
     
  15. SimonH2

    SimonH2

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    Another thing to bear in mind ...

    At the house end of the supply is probably a 32A breaker. If you wire up a 32A socket in the workshop then it will be on a 32A breaker. So two equally sized breakers in series, plus the house end will have the added current from the workshop lights. Most likely, if you find yourself winding up the power and tripping the breaker - it will be the house end that trips, which not only means trekking to the house to turn the supply back on, but also plunging you into darkness.

    My mate had a similar problem in his garage, except his was a 2x3hp compressor which would happily blow the fuses if it had a slow start (it seemed to be a bit tight when new, and especially when cold). Of course we didn't ever consider adding a bit of 5A fusewire in parallel with the 30 fusewire in the house end :rolleyes:
    The supplier eventually sorted the problem with some better slow-start valves.

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing, I assume it's now not practical to upgrade the cable and supply to the workshop.
     
  16. RB2004

    RB2004

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    Heres an idea, instead of using a 13 amp extension lead for a purpose it was not designed for and continually blowing 13 amp fuses... which wouldnt be unexpected seeming its a 16amp appliance and the fuse is only rated for 13amp?

    Shove one of these,

    [​IMG]

    http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GW240slash16slash3S.html

    on the circuit in the garage in place of a socket.. if it needs its own circuit then it wouldnt be impossible to install its own separate radial circuit and protect it with a 16amp type C mcb.. to avoid continual tripping.

    then use a proper 16amp extension lead like this,

    http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/SDEX4.html

    [​IMG]

    whereby everything is designed for purpose then.

    dont know where the talk of the MCBs come from, as from what i can see it is the 13amp fuse in the plug on his extension lead that keeps blowing, rather than an MCB tripping..
     
  17. westie101

    westie101

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    So 7 days ago I posted this: -

    (for spur read radial from the CU!!)

    And folk are still arguing about MCB curves and 32A sockets
    :confused:
     
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