1930s 3bed semi

[eric bristow]

Hello People i have just brought a 1930s 3 bed semi and i have taken a look at the electrics here lies the problem, both the lighting ring mains seem fine each on there sperate 5amp fuse but the 30amp power ring main for the sockets is on one ring main, the reason for this is that there are only 1 socket (single) in each room!!

Can i add to these? and if so how many double sockets can i have? and is it ok to have just 1 ring main?

The cooker also has its own 30amp ringmain with 6mm cable i think? its all very strange,

and whats worse one of the light switchs has 4 red cables in the top connector and 2 red cables in the bottom? it isnt a 2way so i cant see why this has been done, i just want to change the old light switch but am scared about how many wires there are? One final note the chunky fuses are the rewirable ones if that helps.

Please help i have a baby daughter and need more sockets and we are fed up wit all the extension leads,

Regards

Eric

 

[securespark]

It is convention these days to have three rings: one up, one down and one for the kitchen.

A ring should cover no more than 100m2, as to outlets I think there is no limit, but ultimately, of course, you are limited by the device in the board.

Cooker is a radial with one 6mm2 cable leaving the Cu? This is conventional.

How many lights does that switch operate?

Fuses at the least could do with changing for mcb's. If not a whole new board. RCD protection advised on GF ring at least.

 

[plugwash]

it is bad practice to have the kitchen on the same ring as the rest of the house because of the issues presented by unbalanced rings

 

[eric bristow]

Thanks for replys the cooker is on its own ring main
But the sockets upstairs and down are only on one 30amp ringmain.
What does the 100m2 mean? is that how much 2.5mm cable i can use?
if i can add more sockets, for the time being will new mcbs fit in to this old CU?

the light switch that has been confusing me is a 1gang 1way and operates 1 light!!

Regards
Eric

 

[securespark]

Each ring is limited to a max of 100m2 of floor area. IE if you have a ring that covers greater than 100m2, then there should be one for each 100m2 of floor.

Confused? I am!

 

[eric bristow]

so the existing ringmain for the sockets upstairs & downstairs is ok then? it has been there for 20yrs so can i add more sockets untill i get it compleatley rewired? and replace the old fuses with mcbs?

i was just worried about adding 10 double sockets throughout the house incase i some how overloaded the 30amp fuse?

so can i add more sockets and change the fuses or not

regards

Eric

 

[Damocles]

The rule about floor area is just a rough way of limiting the number of things which will be plugged in, and importantly also limiting the total length of wire used going around the ring.

The socket ring is called a ring because a cable goes from supply to socket to socket to socket etc then back to supply. There is a complete ring of wire. It is the only kind of house circuit which is wired like this. All others are radials.

After installing the extra sockets you will still only be using the same amount of electricity as now, unless you rush out and buy lots more stuff to use up all the extra sockets. So the present 30A or so will still be enough. If you can, it may be worth splitting the wiring into a ring upstairs and a ring downstairs. Or alternatively splitting into one ring for kitchen and one for the rest of the house.

It may possibly be the case that you really only have a downstairs ring, with spurs (just one wire) going up to each socket on the floor above. If so, you might have to install a completely new ring anyway.

Not quite sure from your description which bits are which for the lights. There is likely to be a ceiling rose with lots of wires going into it. Power coming in, power going to next light, maybe power to another light, one wire going to switch. At the switch end there is likely just one cable with the two wires going into the switch.

 

[dingbat]

If the lighting has been wired in singles there is a good chance that the lives loop via the switches and the neutrals via the lights. The multiple conductors at the switch mentioned may indicate this, but having multiple conductors in each terminal sounds like a modification.

Are you sure the wiring is only twenty years old? It may be that the lighting circuit is older, does it have an earth?

 

[eric bristow]

As i have said before it does have a seperate ring for the kitchen

so i will be adding extra sockets and changing to mcbs.

The lightswitch which is causing me problems only had a live, earth and neutral in the rose so changeing the lightfitting was easy, but the switch still has all those wires in

Regards

eric

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As i have said before it does have a seperate ring for the kitchen

No, you have not said that before!

In your first post "the 30amp power ring main for the sockets is on one ring main"
In your second post "But the sockets upstairs and down are only on one 30amp ringmain."

If you've not even got to grips with the topography of your existing wiring, I think it's a bit premature to be planning modifications.

In the hope that you're not one of these people who thinks that all you need to know is "red-to-red and black-to-black", and refuses to accept otherwise when told, I suggest you spend a bit of time here:

http://www.diydick.com/site-main-button-index-pages/electrical-menu-frame.htm

and get hold of these books:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852028172

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863413749

If you're going to do anything beyond replacing lights and switches, and adding a few sockets you'll need to learn more info on top of what's in there.


Oh - and if you don't have a multimeter yet, go and buy one.

 

[eric bristow]

i did say that the cooker electrics were on there own ring main in my first post diddnt I?

anyway i know a little about electrics i have my first year in City and guilds i was an apprentice electriction 13yrs ago i just wanted a little help not smart*ss replies shedman

i also said can i just add some sockets untill i get the house rewired in 2-3mths time?

Can anyone give me a straight answer please!!

Eric

 

[breezer]

you can add more sockets, but let me ask you this:

you know the house wants rewiring, you are going to do it / have it done in 2-3 months, why bother doing the same job twice? i.e. put more sockets in then rewire them in 2-3 months

why not rewire the sockets now, or compromise and rewire them next month?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

i did say that the cooker electrics were on there own ring main in my first post diddnt I?

Yes, you did, and that was corrected by securespark who pointed out that the cooker circuit would be a radial, not a ring.

This correction you blithely ignored in your second post, repeating that the cooker was on it's own ring. To be fair, I suppose this is just possible, but who would wire a ring with 6mm², on a 30A fuse beats me. And anyway, I'm not sure that a ring for anything other than sockets is a recognised circuit type.

But that is all irrelevant. A cooker circuit is not the same as a kitchen circuit. Be it 4mm², 6mm² or 10mm², and whether it is a ring or a radial, none of the sockets that you need can go on the cooker circuit.

So whilst I will suspend my disbelief for now over the type of cooker circuit you have, there is no doubt that your kitchen does not already have a separate ring main.

anyway i know a little about electrics i have my first year in City and guilds i was an apprentice electriction 13yrs ago

You don't seem to remember much....

i just wanted a little help not smartass replies shedman

And that's what I provided - I stressed that despite what you think, you do not have a separate ring for the kitchen, as you were being advised to have. Since you were asking questions like "what does 100m2 mean?", and "how many sockets can I have?", to say nothing of being "scared" by the number of wires in a light switch, you seemed to me to be seriously short of basic knowledge, so I pointed you at a useful website and a couple of useful books.

i also said can i just add some sockets untill i get the house rewired in 2-3mths time?

Can anyone give me a straight answer please!!

Eric

I can't answer that. I can say that sockets can be added to your circuit, but whether you can do it, given your combination of utter ignorance and attitude when you are told things, I don't know.

 

[supersparks]

i did say that the cooker electrics were on there own ring main in my first post diddnt I?

anyway i know a little about electrics i have my first year in City and guilds i was an apprentice electriction 13yrs ago i just wanted a little help not smart*ss replies shedman

i also said can i just add some sockets untill i get the house rewired in 2-3mths time?

Can anyone give me a straight answer please!!

Eric

hmm....
there is a bloke getting his cu changed for 42 quid and now a bloke who dosnt know the slightest thing about electrical wiring, cant spell electrician and did his c+g 13 years ago.....

OK.....



has diynot become a Septic tank?

because its filling with bull**** fast

 

[breezer]

has diynot become a Septic tank?

because its filling with bull**** fast

I understand what you are saying, to a point i agree, what you must bear in mind is that this IS a diy FORUM.

A forum by design is a place to give your opinions, be those opions right or wrong they are just that, opinions.

I strongly disagree with even mentioning pulling the REC fuse, but it is still often mentioned

The only "recomendation" that i can make on this is that we (us regualrs) draw up a list of what can / can not be mentione, that said it kind of defeats the whole forum principal.

If you notice some time ago fountainman made a list here of waht is not acceptable, but most regualrs ignore it.

By that i am NOT pointing the finger at anyone person, but an example would be a post in wrong forum to which somebody replies to, instead of pointing out it is in the wrong forum and waiting for a mod to move it.

So in summing up, as i see it we all agree what not to reply to (other than to post it is wrong) or we just let things be. (assuming a mod does not delete this post)