1930's rewire

[JP_]

In my 1930s bungalow I just ran a network cable to the lounge and put a wifi adapter there, so there are 2 in the house. This provides plenty of wifi coverage. In a house, maybe another on the ceiling in the landing to cover the rooms. Then network cables also for the heaviest users, eg. 4K TV.

 

[mattylad]

However many network sockets you think are enough for each room, double it.
You generally only get 1 chance of running the cables.

Even the smallest rooms may benefit from a network socket, if not for now for in the future.
Although I'm not too sure if we will have networked toilet seats and loo holders in the future

Take them to a central point somewhere that you can have a router/switch setup.

 

[bernardgreen]

https://ask4internet.com/blog/2020/9/30/robot-hoovers-toothbrushes-and-toilet-seats

• And, wait for it… a toilet seat - featuring heating, cleaning and ventilation functions, controlled via an app or voice command
  

 

[FrodoOne]

Just bought a 1930's house and it needs basically gutting and rewiring. So with this we are looking to modernise. It has thick walls and I notice the wifi doesn't get too far, so thinking cabled and a mesh system.

Initial thoughts

1. Enough plug sockets per room
2. Do you need a network socket in each room?
3. best way to wire a TV over a fireplace?
4. Addition of external outside sockets.


Any hints,tips, do's and don't to consider during the upgrade process to make sure we don't end up missing anything. A contractor will be doing the works.

winston1 has posted some good advice below.

1. Twice as many as you think you will need.
2. Possibly but do you know where in the room you want it. Not a sparks job though.
3. Don't. A TV over a fireplace can have a short life due to rising heat from the fire. Also it will be too high for viewing and you will get a crick in the neck. Wherever you put the TV allow for an aerial and dual satellite connection. Job far a CAI registered installer, not a sparks.
4. Good idea. One at the front for lawn mower and vacuuming the car, even slow charging an EV. Double at the back for lawn mower and other things.

In addition,
1. All Socket-Outlets should be installed on "Radials" (NOT on "Rings), with each Radial protected by an individual RCBO.
(For why "Rings" should not be used, see

)
2. At least 2 LAN sockets in each "livable" room - more where TVs are located
3. TVs over fireplaces are anathema.

LAN cables (CAT 6 at least) should be installed from a network Patch Panel (incorporating a network "Switch")
Here is an illustration of a possible suitable Patch Panel and "Switch" installation.

Such a "Patch Panel" should be installed in an accessible but "out-of-the-way" location, such as a garage.

 

[mastersc]

Thanks for all the great information so far, lots to think about, fireplaces we are looking at somerthing low and long to replace this one which looks like its some kind of scary brick face Floor plan for the lower floor. The garage is being converted so I think the network kit would be in the bottom left room as thats were the services are located. Its got really thick walls so the network ports are going to be vital as the virgin hub wifi struggles to make it out of 1 room.

 

[SimonH2]

My preference is to put conduits in the wall - for most cables, white oval will do. But, few sparks will do it (in my opinion) properly as they don't take the conduit into the back box - typically the cables are run in, dogleg between the end of the conduit and the hole in the box, and then get buried on plaster for the last 1/2 inch. It takes time nibbling out the hole to take the conduit. A 32mm white oval will take 4 cables - any combination of coax and network cables.
Unless you put that horrible interlocking laminate flooring down, you can pull up a floorboard and add/remove cables as needed/standards change. Obviously some construction methods (solid floors, large Weatabix sorry chipboard panels glued together and to the joists) make this less practical.

As to planning to use wireless ...
Plan to use wired as much as possible. Wired is reliable, high throughput, doesn't suffer from contention - wireless suffers from interference, contention (both between your own devices and with your neighbours), is degraded by walls etc, ... Also bear in mind that there are quite a few devices that can be powered over the network cable (PoE, Power over Ethernet) either built in or via adapters which can avoid needing to run power for things you might have connected (less reliably) via wireless.

 

[JohnW2]

... Unless you put that horrible interlocking laminate flooring down ...

... or even that not-so-horrible (in some people's minds - but maybe not yours!) wood block (e.g. "parquet") flooring

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

True, but parquet is a lot less common than the cheap "behaves like weatabix when wet" laminate from the DIY places. Most of our house was done with the latter by the previous owner, and the hassle factor of lifting any of it is stopping me doing jobs ... for now, till we're ready to rip a whole room up and put something decent down.

 

[JohnW2]

True, but parquet is a lot less common than the cheap "behaves like weatabix when wet" laminate from the DIY places. Most of our house was done with the latter by the previous owner, and the hassle factor of lifting any of it is stopping me doing jobs ... for now, till we're ready to rip a whole room up and put something decent down.

Agreed - I've 'been there'. However, my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment about parquet resulted from the fact that I've also 'been there', and getting it up (and, more to the point, getting it back down again satisfactorily, and without damage) is, at least in my experience, even more of a challenge than is laminate.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

Looking at post #20. I think it was Professor Plum in the kitchen using the candlestick.

 

[dishman]

I do have a question regarding the ring final circuits.

Do a lot of electricians still use this method when rewiring etc, just because it is the easy/quick solution?

Does rewiring with radials result in a lot more breakers and a much larger CU, even in a typical 3 bed semi?

 

[SUNRAY]

Agreed - I've 'been there'. However, my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment about parquet resulted from the fact that I've also 'been there', and getting it up (and, more to the point, getting it back down again satisfactorily, and without damage) is, at least in my experience, even more of a challenge than is laminate.

Kind Regards, John

I have to totally agree with you, however given the free choice I'll chose neither. A couple of years ago or so I helped a friend chase a pipe into their concrete kitchen floor. Now I'll add that this was primarily for the condensate for the new boiler but as a bonus it was also going to be used to replace the inadequate, and meandering, sink/WM/DW waste with a hope it was going to cure the long term 'drain smell'.

Imagine our horrer when we ripped up the waterproof laminate, and I do mean 'ripped up' as the underlay and years worth of yucky fat/soap etc mess that had managed to get under the laminate had formed a very effective glue, some of which had grown some spectacular mould. On top of that we'd found the source of the 'drain smell' and believe me the stench was horrific.

At that I vowed I'd never have the stuff myself and if it had to be a wooden floor covering it would have to be parquet.

I'll add that has not been the only example of the build up under laminate flooring I've encountered but it was by far the worst. Other materials such as vinyl don't seem to suffer to anything like the same extent.

 

[JohnW2]

I do have a question regarding the ring final circuits. Do a lot of electricians still use this method when rewiring etc, just because it is the easy/quick solution?

I'm sure that a lot still install ring finals, but probably more 'out of habit' than any other reason. Installing a ring final is not really any easier/quicker than installing a radial.

Does rewiring with radials result in a lot more breakers and a much larger CU, even in a typical 3 bed semi?

If one installs 32A radials (with 4mm² cable) then the number of breakers, and hence required size of CU, is exactly the same as it would be with ring finals.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I do have a question regarding the ring final circuits.

Do a lot of electricians still use this method when rewiring etc, just because it is the easy/quick solution?

Does rewiring with radials result in a lot more breakers and a much larger CU, even in a typical 3 bed semi?

Yes they do still use the very satisfactory power circuit. It may very well be quicker and easier, it may very well be cheaper but above all it's there in the regs as a suitable arrangement.
Rewiring with radials is usually more work, usually takes longer, usually uses more cable, usually requires a bigger and more expensive consumer unit.

Are there advantages to using radials? The only one that springs to mind is radials don't hide an open circuit conductor/termination.

 

[JohnW2]

It [ring final] may very well be quicker and easier,

Why?

... it may very well be cheaper ...

How? If one compares 'like with like' (32A radial vs 32A ring), one willk usually/often require roughly twice the length of (2.5mm²) cable for the ring, yet 4mm² cable is not twice the price of 2.5mm².

Rewiring with radials is usually more work ...

Why?

... usually takes longer

Why?

... usually uses more cable ...

Eh? I don't think you are comparing 'like with like' (32A ring vs 32A radial)

... usually requires a bigger and more expensive consumer unit.

As per my previous post, not if one installs 32A radials - exactly the same CU as for rings.

Are there advantages to using radials? The only one that springs to mind is radials don't hide an open circuit conductor/termination.

That one is certainly true - but I would say there are equally few advantages to using ring finals - 'CPC redundancy' being one of those few.

Kind Regards, John