A form of Democracy?

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Big_Spark

There is a lot of political debating going on this forum, so I thought I would get peoples views on a system of government that I would like to see in place in the UK..and I may actually start to do something about it...

Firstly I would make it illegal to be a member of an organised political party.

All MP's would be independent, they would be legally required to be resident in the constituency they represent, and they would be selected by the people of that constituency in a free and fair vote.

The post of Prime Minister would be decided by the people in free elections with the likely candidates campaigning for the job.

It would be illegal for any individual, group or organisation to make donations to any MP or Political leader. All funding for elections would come from a central fund that would be raised from Taxes paid to the Treasury (Normal taxes). This would be capped to prevent anyone having a financial advantage over opponents.

The posts of Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Chancellor, Education Secretary would be decided by a free vote of MP's with the candidate for these posts undergoing an examination by a Select Committee of MP's. This group of MP's would be selected at randam by a computer to prevent others from selecting for the committee those who they like.

All MP's would have to sign a legally binding document to take thier posts. This document would set out minimum standards expected of them with several provisions covered by Legislation. Should an MP breach this, they would be prosecuted for a breach of these standards and if convicted, barred from Public Office and possibly face imprisonment.

If more than 10% of an MP's constituents sign a petition for their removal, then a vote in that constituency must take place within 30 days of that petition. Should the this vote show more than 40% of the constituents want a new MP, the a local election must take place within another 60 days. The deselected MP will be barred from standing in this election.

It would be a legal requirment that all persons over the age of 16 Vote in Local and National elections, failure to do so would be a crime that would be punishable by a fine and 6 months imprisonment. Measures would be in place to allow those working away from home to vote locally to where they are working.

All voting papers would carry an "abstention vote". If you did not wish to take part in the vote then you would be required to use this. However, the use of this on more than 3 consecutive occasions would be investigated for the reasons why, failure to Justify this abstention could render the person liable to prosecution.

All persons who reside abroad would be barred from voting in the UK, unless they are working in a temporary position and their Employer is UK based. Proof would be required. Should an individual intend to return to the UK within the following 12 months, proof would be required, but they would be allowed to vote.

Our current two tier system of Government would be modified. MP's would represent no more than 100,000 people, giving the UK 590 MP's, the second chamber of the House would then be Representatives of the COUNTY where they live. These would be elected by the population.

The Term of Office of any Prime Minister would have a maximum period of 1 elective period, and this would be extended to 8 years. If 10% of MP's decide the PM is not doing the Job, then they can call a Petition for an Election. If this occurs, all MP's will be required to Vote. Should more than 40% of the MP's votae against retaining the PM, then a National Election must be called within 180 days of the vote. However the PM would be barred from continuing in their role. A computer would be used to randomly select an MP to act as Interim PM until the election.


Now the above is incomplete and hardly definitive, however if we are to have proper democracy in this country, then we need a system akin to the one I have outlined above.

This current system is far from democratic, hardly representative, and generally there is no incentive for MP's to do a good job.

MP's are employed to represent them, unless they can be held accountable by their constituents, then they will never be truly accountable.

What are your thoughts on this??
 
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Igorian

FWL_Engineer said:
Firstly I would make it illegal to be a member of an organised political party.

Who would? Surely in a democratic society, the people should vote for this.

All MP's would be independent, they would be legally required to be resident in the constituency they represent, and they would be selected by the people of that constituency in a free and fair vote.

Freedom of movement removed then.

The post of Prime Minister would be decided by the people in free elections with the likely candidates campaigning for the job.

Errm, but you later say people will be forced to vote. Not exactly a free election

It would be illegal for any individual, group or organisation to make donations to any MP or Political leader. All funding for elections would come from a central fund that would be raised from Taxes paid to the Treasury (Normal taxes). This would be capped to prevent anyone having a financial advantage over opponents.

Even more taxes then?

The posts of Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary, Chancellor, Education Secretary would be decided by a free vote of MP's with the candidate for these posts undergoing an examination by a Select Committee of MP's. This group of MP's would be selected at randam by a computer to prevent others from selecting for the committee those who they like.

Would you use the national lottery machines for this? :LOL:

All MP's would have to sign a legally binding document to take thier posts. This document would set out minimum standards expected of them with several provisions covered by Legislation. Should an MP breach this, they would be prosecuted for a breach of these standards and if convicted, barred from Public Office and possibly face imprisonment.

Better make provision for more luxury cells for the MPs then

It would be a legal requirment that all persons over the age of 16 Vote in Local and National elections, failure to do so would be a crime that would be punishable by a fine and 6 months imprisonment. Measures would be in place to allow those working away from home to vote locally to where they are working.

All voting papers would carry an "abstention vote". If you did not wish to take part in the vote then you would be required to use this. However, the use of this on more than 3 consecutive occasions would be investigated for the reasons why, failure to Justify this abstention could render the person liable to prosecution.

Remove the right not to vote, should I decide I don't agree with any of the parties (or be investigated!). So no more anonymous voting then. Sound more like a police state than a democracy.

Stick to engineering dude.
 
B

Big_Spark

Igorian...have you bothered to really read it...

If people constantly choose to abstain then there is a problem..that needs to be investigated. Only in very extreme cases would I suggest prosecution. If people genuinly do not like any of the candidates then so be it..but then you make a provision that if more than say 25% abstain, then you select new candidates and do it again...

MP's should represent their constituents, if they do not live in the community, how can they represent it..the very Idea of an MP is to represent those where they live...This is the case in many democrasies, what is wrong with it here?

Bad wording on my part..I would not advocate higher taxes to pay for elections, simply take the money from the existing pot..it would not cost that musch if properly controlled...Even with no controls, the last election cost something like £200 Million nationally...Now if you control that, and say cap it to £100 Million, with only £20 Million for General elections, the money is drop in the ocean.

Luxury cells for MP's? Hardly..spikes more like :D

I don't think the Camelot machines would be good enough for this task somehow :D
 
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Sounds like he is interested in forming a new soviet state!! :LOL:
 
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Big_Spark

jasy said:
Sounds like he is interested in forming a new soviet state!! :LOL:

Oh so funny..have you nothing constructive to add?

The very point of democracy is that it is debated and decided by the masses..you need to start from opposite ends in order to form a consensus of opinion that all are in agreement with...
 
I

Igorian

FWL_Engineer said:
Igorian...have you bothered to really read it...

Yes, I did bother to read it and i'm all for a better way. It's just that your way isn't any better, it just masks the problems.

If people don't vote, it's generally for a reason, especially looking at the percentages that don't. Forcing them by introducing fines and prison sentences is not the way. Let's try a novel approach, like getting the politicians to actually do the things they promise. Wouldn't that be nice.
 
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FWL_Engineer said:
jasy said:
Sounds like he is interested in forming a new soviet state!! :LOL:

Oh so funny..have you nothing constructive to add?

The very point of democracy is that it is debated and decided by the masses..you need to start from opposite ends in order to form a consensus of opinion that all are in agreement with...

So if we vote yes in the up coming referendum you are now admitting a point we have raised and you argued against that everybody else in Europe can decide what goes on in our country and we can do nothing about it, because we wont be as numerous as the rest of Europe.
 
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Big_Spark

Freddie said:
So if we vote yes in the up coming referendum you are now admitting a point we have raised and you argued against that everybody else in Europe can decide what goes on in our country and we can do nothing about it, because we wont be as numerous as the rest of Europe.

Freddie..stick to the thread subject for F Sake.

If you want to debate the Europe question stick to the Europe thread please.
 
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Big_Spark

Igorian said:
Yes, I did bother to read it and i'm all for a better way. It's just that your way isn't any better, it just masks the problems.

If people don't vote, it's generally for a reason, especially looking at the percentages that don't. Forcing them by introducing fines and prison sentences is not the way. Let's try a novel approach, like getting the politicians to actually do the things they promise. Wouldn't that be nice.

Have you asked Australians..they must Vote, and their system works pretty well. The only way to force the Politicians to do their job is to get the population to re-engage in the political debating process..it simply isn't happening at the moment, and I am sick of this childish shiite we get from Westminster and the image a small minority of idiots present to the world..I am also sickj of this nation being thought of as Americas Poodle because fo idiots like Blair...
 
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FWL_Engineer said:
Freddie said:
So if we vote yes in the up coming referendum you are now admitting a point we have raised and you argued against that everybody else in Europe can decide what goes on in our country and we can do nothing about it, because we wont be as numerous as the rest of Europe.

Freddie..stick to the thread subject for F Sake.

If you want to debate the Europe question stick to the Europe thread please.

I am, it is part of your thread when talking about democracy.

I and everybody should have the right to think and vote for what we as individuals want, and should never have to be challenged for an explanation on it if we dont vote
 
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Big_Spark

Freddie said:
I am, it is part of your thread when talking about democracy.

I and everybody should have the right to think and vote for what we as individuals want, and should never have to be challenged for an explanation on it if we dont vote

Now your simply being a pratt. This is about the UK politics..this can be debated seperate from Europe at this juncture ands you know it.

If you don't vote, then shut up moaning about a situation you abdicated your right to comment on..FOOL
 
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Igorian

FWL_Engineer said:
Have you asked Australians..they must Vote, and their system works pretty well.

I know nothing of the Australian system, this is true, but as you've said, we are talking about UK politics. Do they have a 'vote for none of the above' policy and are they fined if they do this 3 times? This would mean having to put your name to a ballot paper.

Do you not think that rather than forcing people to vote, they (whoever they are), should be asking themselves why people aren't voting.

There is a problem with the abstinence vote. What would happen if the majority voted this way? Answer, anarchy.
 
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What if someone continued to abstain on the grounds that they didn't agree with the system?

This business of 10% of constituents or mp's ganging up against an mp or the pm would not work. There would be constant power struggles with factions developing, and an mp would be afraid of putting a foot wrong. What if some policy which was necessary or unavoidable was so unpopular at the outset that politicians were being voted out left, right and centre (no pun intended). I think that it would cause politics to stagnate.
 
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FWL_Engineer said:
If you don't vote, then shut up moaning about a situation you abdicated your right to comment on..FOOL

Why should people take you seriously if you resort to insulting them?
 
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