A moral question...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ellal, 20 Nov 2021.

  1. denso13

    denso13

    Joined:
    22 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    6,111
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No way of knowing. One is the yellow card scheme the other is taken from death certificates.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. jeds

    jeds

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2004
    Messages:
    4,750
    Thanks Received:
    641
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Andy, I honestly don't care if you have/want a vaccine or not. It's your choice and if I were in your shoes I wouldn't waste time defending it. But this is a nonsense argument. If every single death following a vaccine was directly caused by the vaccine, that would still be a tiny fraction of deaths caused by the virus itself.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    26,056
    Thanks Received:
    1,823
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    it is not unreliable, it is simply unverified reporting by health professionals and the public

    and it only shows association not causation -it is an initial reporting scheme which would be used as an indicator if there was a common adverse event shortly after -which then could be used for further studies, to gain actual proof
     
  5. jeds

    jeds

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2004
    Messages:
    4,750
    Thanks Received:
    641
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Apart from a sore arm and a slight feverish feeling, most of the side effects complained of will be pre-existing conditions. Some people may well have developed complications and some of those may have caused death, but it's a tiny, tiny fraction compared to death by covid.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. denso13

    denso13

    Joined:
    22 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    6,111
    Thanks Received:
    1,146
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Just like any other vaccine, but I haven't seen any complaints about the flu vaccine, for example, from the anti-vaxxers.
     
  7. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    6,830
    Thanks Received:
    1,482
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Or polio, whooping cough, MMR, varicella (chicken pox), diptheria, tetanus, hepatitis (A and B), pneumococcal pneumonia, human papillomavirus (HPV), etc. I'll bet that most of the anti-vaxxers have had at least 3 or 4 of those, with the tetanus being the one that anyone in trade should have automatically. These people have the "advantage" of living in a world where many once debilitating and fatal diseases have been cured, so they probably never went to school with a kid (maybe in leg callipers) had been one of the "lucky ones" who'd survived polio, for example.
     
  8. andy11

    andy11

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2005
    Messages:
    2,005
    Thanks Received:
    218
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    From JP_ on the other thread, to which I'm not allowed to reply:

    That last point is a specious comparison, as not everybody will catch covid, whereas pro-vaxxers want everybody to have the vaccine.

    Also, covid mainly kills the very old, so if you vaccinate all the population you will be vaccinating many who don't need it. I wonder how many of those killed by the vaccine were not in the age group vulnerable to covid?

    NOTE to John D: JP's British Heart Foundation link makes mention of 72 deaths due to clotting due to the vaccines. (My deleted Sky News link said 73 as did the Gov.UK link I posted earlier today).
     
  9. Sponsored Links
  10. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    26,056
    Thanks Received:
    1,823
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    yes they will, given time

    true but long covid affects the young

    Compared with the previous month, self-reported long COVID was higher among young people aged 12 to 16 or 17 to 24 years
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...s/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/infections

    the higher the percentage of vaccinated people, the lower the number of hospitalisations and the lower the risk if variants


    how do you identify those?

    back in August:
    One in five people being admitted to hospital in England with Covid is aged between 18 and 34, the new chief executive of NHS England has said
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58095503

    I would guess they are the group you would consider "dont need the vaccine"
     
  11. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    6,830
    Thanks Received:
    1,482
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    AFAIK a major problem with COVID-19 is that susceptibility is still not fully understood. I listened to an immunologist on radio a few months ago saying that it in addition to other factors such as age, obeisity and some diseases such as diabetes (all of which appear to increase susceptibility to COVID-19) it appears there is a possible link between certain blood groups and susceptibility to COVID-19 as well, with observations appearing to show that people with B and/or O blood groups were less likely to be COVID-19 in-patients, whilst critically ill COVID-19 patients with blood groups A and AB were more likely to require mechanical ventilation and prolonged intensive care in comparison. A study of severe COVID-19 patients also showed that those with blood group A had a higher risk of severe disease, while blood group O had a protective effect.

    This could go some way to explain the disparity in COVID-19 infection rates between those of northern European ethnicity and those of south Asian ethnicity (where appareently blood groups A and AB are more common). There is a discussion on the BMJ website here with relevant references for anyone interested, but I think it makes a myth of age being the only major factor in COVID-19 susceptibility
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Notch7

    Notch7

    Joined:
    15 Sep 2017
    Messages:
    26,056
    Thanks Received:
    1,823
    Location:
    S. Uplands
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    yes indeed and cytokine storm certainly can effect the very healthy and young
     
  13. andy11

    andy11

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2005
    Messages:
    2,005
    Thanks Received:
    218
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It's what we used to call a "cold".
     
  14. JohnD

    JohnD

    Joined:
    15 Nov 2005
    Messages:
    75,030
    Thanks Received:
    4,350
    Location:
    Crossgates, Europe
    Country:
    Cook Islands
    you are a shameless troll posting transparent lies.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

    Joined:
    30 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    6,830
    Thanks Received:
    1,482
    Location:
    Lancashire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Agreed. You might as well call it the "lurgy". BTW @andy11, that "cold" killed a former colleague of mine last year. He was 37, athletic, not overweight, a rugby player and not the sort of person you'd expect to die of COVID-19. I'm sure his missus (a nurse) would give you a piece of her mind of you said that within earshot
     
Loading...

Share This Page