Advice on fitting new window

[joseph77]

Hello all,

Im about to change an old wooden window with a new uPVC window, can any one give me any advice on what tools and materials i should have before i start. Also does any one have any tips to make it go more smoother.

Cheers.

 

[TexMex]

first of all, You need to notify your local building control office about modifications of this type nowadays.

Before you go taking the old frame out, try to assertain wether it is holding anything else up. Somtimes, (especially Bay windows, or oriel types), there is no lintel above the frame. If this is the case, temporary support will need to be provided (in the form of accrows or whatever).

The rest of this post assumes that you have a nice simple job. (lintel going across the top of the frame), you will probably find that the frame is sat on a bed of mortar and the sides have fixings holding the sides to the masonary. (these fixings may be invisible until you take the frame out. The top will just sit beneith the lintel with either mastic or sand and cement to fill the gap.

Before taking out the old window, double check measurements of the opening (from outside the building) and compare against your replacement frame. Also take steps to make sure no-one is going to stray into firing range once you start to smash the old one out. (especially if it's an upstairs window).

The old window frame comes out through the outside of the opening. So most of your work for removal is going to be carried out from the inside (pushing it outwards).

Remove as much of the old glass as posssible then, by judicious use of a jack saw and club hammer, remove the inner structures of the window frame, leaving just the four sides. I find it helps, at this point to saw through the sides of the frame near the top, and then tap (quite heavily) the top cross member out.

Then with a bit of persuation (from the club hammer again). Work on the side pieces alternatively, to edge them out. (the outer cill will come too). Try not to damage the plasterwork as you do this. This will keep your making good to a minimum. It may help, to use a large coal chissel during this process to "focus" your blows where the fixings are holding it to the walls.

It may be possible to remove the old frame whole, but if you're not considering re-using it, I wouldn't bother trying.

Remove any grot from around the opening. (loose mortar from under the cill, old mastic from sides and top). If there are frame brackets still bedded in the mortar joints, remove them if possible, or bash them flat.

If any of the glasswork in the new window is removable, take it out. (it will make it lighter and easier to manhandle).

Offer the new frame up to the hole. Check to see if you can get it to but up against the raw edge of the plaster, where the old one came from. If you are going to replace the inner window cill, remove the old one now. If you are keeping the existing one, ensure that it is not stopping the frame sitting properly against the plaster.

Check that you have some clearance above the top of the frame. On the underside of the Lintel you may see a "drip" (a slot running along the underside of the lintel near the outer edge). This should be outside the frame, so check this also.

Once you are happy that it is going to fit properly, remove the frame and spread a layer of mortar on the top of the wall. (across the bottom of the opening) about 10mm thick. Run a thin bead of silicone around the raw edge of the plaster. (hopefully this is still nice and straight.). If you're old inner cill is still in place, run a thin bead of mastic on the outer edge of this too.

Put the frame back in place on top of the mortar, and tap down a little, to square up the frame in the opening.

while holding the frame in place, put some frame fixing screws through the sides of the frame, into the adjacent brickwork. Do not over tighten as they may pull the frame out of square. Check that the frame is not being distorted, by means of a straight edge up the sides of the frame and a large set square in the corners.

Once you are happy that the frame is in the right place, remove any excess silicone that has squidged out with a damp cloth, then go outside, and tidy up the mortar joint under the frame, with the back of a trowel.

replace any removable glass panels that you took out earlier. Finally go back outside and run a bead of mastic around the perimiter to seal it. If there are some big gaps, you may want to use some expanding foam in the gap, before finishing with mastic.

If you are fitting a new cill, put this in place now, (with a thin bead of silicone to but up against the frame).

There is more than one way to skin a cat though, and I'm bound to have forgotten something, so don't be surprised, if someone else tells you different.

 

[joseph77]

Cheers Tex,

Plenty of info there, first things first im going to contact my building office. I'll keep you updated with the progress. Thanks again.

 

[Thing]

I bought two made to measure replacement upvc window units and have fitted one of them this weekend. Having read some of the posts on this site I am now in two minds as to whether to fit the other one or get the supplier to come and fit for me!

Firstly no-one mentioned building regs to me... so now I have one in place but didn't get permission and am not that keen on having to pay someone to come and tell me my work isn't acceptable!

Also, on reflection I think the measurement for the new window should have been made on the outside of the opening instead of the inside. It fits well and looks good from the inside, but the gap around the sides and top is quite big so it has taken quite a lot of foam to fill it. It just seemed like the unit could have been 10-20 mm wider and taller. I now have a lot of foam to carve off flat and it will probably need covering with something else to give an acceptable surface to paint over, like cement. Anyone know what is the best finish to cover over foam permanently?

Worst of all, I made an incorrect assumption that there would be some nice big lintel over the opening - wrong! This house was built around 1910 - 20 and the lintel is wooden and doesn't even look that big. The window frame that I took out was quite heavy duty and I wonder if it was designed to take some of the load. Bits of it were so rotten however that I'm not sure it was doing much. The current upvc window doesn't even reach to the lintel, so it can't be taking any load even if it is sufficiently strong to do so - there is just the layer of foam on top!

Nothing has fallen down, but I'm already having nightmares about seeing a big crack appear in the rendered brickwork over the window... all that is above it is a gable end wall with a pitched roof - it is one of those rooms that sticks out of an old house on its own as it were.

Anyway - I did manage to get the old frame out and the new window, including the glass, in between the hours of 9am and 8-30pm! It poured with rain just as I was putting in the last sealed unit.

I did all of this from the inside by the way, it did need three people to offer up the window from the outside - i.e. we put the whole frame through the opening at an angle, then brought it back into place. I may be wrong, but I didn't use any mortar to fix the external cill - it fitted so well that I just used a lot of No More Nails on to the brick work, stuck the cill on it, then the window unit has a slot along the bottom which itself locates on to a ridge on the cill. This means the whole thing is accurately located at the bottom.

Advice from the supplier was to squirt a load of foam along the edges of the opening first so that once the window was put in the foam would keep it there until holes are drilled and the screws can be put in. This way, you can drill through the window frame and the wall in one go (changing drill bit as you go from pvc and alloy into the brickwork of course). Saves having to align predrilled holes... Remember that there is metal inside the frame so you'll need a good sharp drill bit to make things easy.

B&Q sell special pvc window fixings which are effectively a very long wall plug and screw (110mm) which is inserted right through the window frame. Quite difficult to get in all the way, helps if you rotate it to fold the wings in a little as you go. Don't hit the plug with the screw in the end too hard as this stripped the thread off the inside of the plug on one of mine, so it didn't bed in when tightened. Best to insert without the screw in then you can tap wuite hard the last inch or so. Did successfully get 3 screws in either side and two through the bottom.

Foam on first was a good idea but was messy and it is very hard to get the foam to stick to a vertical surface even when wetted. Obviously once the foam goes on, the window must be located between 5 and 10 minutes after, when the foam is just beginning to expand and cure but is still soft.

In some ways I'd prefer to put the window up, have someone hold it in position while from the outside the foam is applied - then you are spraying into a confined gap which is much easier.

Did I mention I did the whole thing from the inside? Not very easy, I must say. Now, the other window has a lean-to roof outside it, which would be OK if it wasn't for the fact that there is a conservatory attached to it and no access from the sides. How do I get up there and stand on the sloping tiled roof? Is there some special way or do I just wear grippy trainers?

 

[TexMex]

Thing

Firstly no-one mentioned building regs to me... so now I have one in place but didn't get permission and am not that keen on having to pay someone to come and tell me my work isn't acceptable!

I suggest you contact them about the one that you are about to install. What you do about the one that is already in place is down to you.

Also, on reflection I think the measurement for the new window should have been made on the outside of the opening instead of the inside.

Yes.

I now have a lot of foam to carve off flat and it will probably need covering with something else to give an acceptable surface to paint over, like cement. Anyone know what is the best finish to cover over foam permanently?

Mastic.

I may be wrong, but I didn't use any mortar to fix the external cill - it fitted so well that I just used a lot of No More Nails on to the brick work, stuck the cill on it

I'd run a bead of mastic along under the outer cill as well, just to make sure it's sealed. Insects have a habbit of finding these gaps and then building their nest within the wall. Once ensconsed they can be a b*gger to erradicate.

Advice from the supplier was to squirt a load of foam along the edges of the opening first so that once the window was put in the foam would keep it there until holes are drilled and the screws can be put in.

That sounds a really naff Idea. I prefer your method of holding it in place before you do the squirting.

the other window has a lean-to roof outside it, which would be OK if it wasn't for the fact that there is a conservatory attached to it and no access from the sides. How do I get up there and stand on the sloping tiled roof? Is there some special way or do I just wear grippy trainers?

Sounds like you're going to do it all from the inside again, but
This. may give you ideas.

 

[Thing]

Thanks for that. I will seal under the cill. Not too sure if I can use mastic over the foam - it would need to be a bead over an inch wide!

Can't believe the cherry picker is so cheap - unfortunately probably not practical for me as I only have access to the back of the house up a narrow alleyway. I will measure the garden gate, but I don't think it is 1.10m wide, which is the narrowest these things go down to.

Can see another product they have though which is for linking a vertical ladder to a roof ladder, that possibly could do it. Would need a ladder laid over the edge of the consrvatory roof on to the tiled lean-to roof beyond.

Other alternative I thought of was sticking a couple of expanding eye bolts into the external wall so I can attach myself to it, climbing out of the window... sounds pretty frightening.

Hopefully if I write to the council, they will say "so what"....

Thanks, I will investigate further.

 

[TexMex]

Some years ago, I did quite a lot of work for a church. One odd job was to fit lead flashing, where the main roof met the steeple. I did the entire job with a rope around my waist and a couple of roof ladders. I gained access via a narrow window from the spire itself. (no scaffold or tower at all).








I must have been bl**dy mad!

 

[Thing]

So did you get the impression that Someone might have been looking after you while you were up there ! ?

 

[TexMex]

So did you get the impression that Someone might have been looking after you while you were up there ! ?

Heavans, no. If I did, I wouldn't have even bothered with the rope It was more a matter of that feeling of invulnerability, that you have when young and foolish. At the time, I actually thought the rope was a bit nancy, but the vicar got worried, seeing me scurrying around on the roof, with no protection at all. I only used it to keep him happy!

Since those carefree days, I've been run over by an articulated lorry (doing about 60mph), I've had my legs pinned to a milk float, by a speeding motorist, been knocked off a motorcycle (by a doddery old fool pulling out of a side turning), and accidently set myself on fire (embarassing that one ). These sorts of things tend to change your outlook on life.