An Alternate Theory on the economic situation in the UK

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I got speaking to a union official today who argues the following points and thought it may make for interesting discussion.

**please note these are not my own beliefs**

The current Conservative lead government has convinced the majority of the public through television, media and other sources that the current economic and employment situation is as a result of the previous Labour governments over indulgence on borrowing, welfare and immigration policies, as well as the banks pretty much doing what they wanted. Whilst the banks did indeed play a massive part in the economic crash leading to the situation we are in now, the Conservatives are over exaggerating the part the policies of the Labour government had to play in the situation.

In the almost 3 years of the conservative lead government, the situation has changed very little and they are still now using the excuse that they were 3 years ago - that Labour are to blame.

We are told almost daily that the number of people claiming benefits is high and that these people either cannot find work or do not wish to. The actual figure for people claiming unemployment benefits, who are not actively seeking work is 1.6 million which is less than 3% of the population. The rest of benefit claimants are either in part time work, carers, disabled or other.

None UK born people who are claiming unemployment benefits amounts to around 371,000 people. This figure takes into account even those migrants who came to the UK as eary as 1975. A proportion of these people will have been paying into the UK treasury and NI for a large portion of their time here. The other migrants in the country are largely in full time employment paying uk tax and NI currently.

The income tax for those who pay 40% tax is only 5% lower than the super rich. That means that somebody earning 500,000 per year only pays 5% more tax above the threshold than those earning say 50,000. Under labour this figure was 50%. It was the conservatives who reduced this to 45%. The super rich now have more money in their pockets than under Labour.

Lets not forget it was Labour who bailed out the banks to prevent bankruptcy and not the Conservatives. The current government now justifies spending cuts in the public sector based on the claims that the labour government messed everything up. So how is it that the current government can justify allowing the super rich to pay 5% less tax than under labour?

At the same time as blaming everything on the EU zone and Labour, the conservatives fail to recognise the real cause of the problem in the UK, which is that there is no industry, and wages for the majority of people remain low and do not keep up with inflation. All this occurs at the same time as the massive companies, pay less and less tax, make more and more profits, remove employees terms and conditions and manage to pay their executive staff millions in salary and bonus money. It was the conservatives who privatised the railways and utility companies, paving the way for those companies who took over to take control of the UK publics energy prices, and railyway fayres purely based on their own profits. Its the same story every year now, shock horror - energy prices to go up due to this, due to that, due to investment in networks etc etc, and yet 6 months later all of those companies post massive profit hikes.

This only ever affects the working class man and woman, those who struggle to get by, whilst yet again - the super rich dont need to worry.

Cutting spending and benefits will only serve to make the situation worse. Working terms and conditions will continue to be eroded, pay will never ever increase inline with inflation and people who live on benefits will turn to crime to bridge the gap between the benefits they were used to and what they will eventually get. Your children, parents and you will be at a greater rish from crime like robbings, stabbings and other violent crime. All in the name of getting a tenner extra to pay for their lifestyle. Who cares if a minor percentage of the population cant be bothered to work? when the real problem is not them, but the lack of industry and well paid work in the UK today. Until we realise this the situation will never improve and the greedy capitalists will become richer and richer, and all the more influential in government policy.

Who really created the situation we live in today? was it Labour or was it the Conservatives?
 
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Both. Blame to be attributed 90% labour. 10% conservative. Current coalition blameless
 
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Does it REALLY matter who caused what?. the question is, is what do we do about it?.
I'm 52 and i 'm pretty sure i'll never work again, wouldn't even attempt work on the poxy wages the conservatives have in mind for me.
Back to being lightfingered, not that i want to, but us ex cons have even less choice the the man on the street.

Need a plan to rob a few hundred grand then HMP for a couple of yrs.

I would take that oppurtunity (sp) today if i could.
 
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What a load of codswallop. Labour increased the tax rate literally weeks before they left office after 13 years in power. It was a classic political stunt by Gordon Brown. They knew they'd soon be out of office and tories would be against a 50p rate. The tories would want to cut it back to what it was pretty soon but it would be politically tough to do so. They didn't increase it for economical reasons, it was a political trap. The 50p rate brought in less revenue than it did at 40p anyway so dropping back towards what it was is the correct thing to do. Labour crying foul about "millionaires tax cuts" are being extremely disingenuous and deceitful.

Labour were in power during one of the most successful economic periods in our modern history. Why then were they running up deficits during this period? In 2007 before the start of the credit crunch, the budget deficit was almost £40 Billion. It was shockingly bad economic foresight. It's basic economics to put money away in the good times for when the inevitable bad times arrive. Oh, but Gordon had ended boom and bust hadn't he?

Seriously, i wouldn't take any notice of a top union official. Total denial is the simplest words to describe them. If it was up to them we'd still be pis*ing money up the wall and letting the public sector retire at 60 with huge pensions, whilst the rest of us struggled on.
 
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Ukip is the only way now!

Andy

Why exactly are UKIP the answer? Do you know any of their policies? Apart from the "OMG it's all the immigrants fault, quick shut all the borders and throw the rest out" policies? It happens all the time during economic hardship, people need someone to blame and immigration is an easy scapegoat. UKIP are just filling this void and providing easy answers for the people who can't think for themselves.

Their policies away from immigration and Europe are total fantasy. They want to increase the Royal Navy by 40%. Why exactly? To pretend we're some sort of world super power still?
 
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Ukip is the only way now!

Andy

Why exactly are UKIP the answer? Do you know any of their policies? Apart from the "OMG it's all the immigrants fault, quick shut all the borders and throw the rest out" policies? It happens all the time during economic hardship, people need someone to blame and immigration is an easy scapegoat. UKIP are just filling this void and providing easy answers for the people who can't think for themselves.

Their policies away from immigration and Europe are total fantasy. They want to increase the Royal Navy by 40%. Why exactly? To pretend we're some sort of world super power still?

I know what their policies are in respect of the two major problems this country is currently facing. That's sufficient for me.

I admit I don't know what their policies are regarding same-sex marriage, though. :LOL:
 
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Average wage round my way for those in the building trade is £300 a week. Lorry drivers about the same. Down at least £200 quid.
People are surviving but only just.

That's a massive loss in tax revenue too.

Did the last labour government factor that in?

Some moaning if public sector workers took a hit like that. :rolleyes:
 
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Aye, public sector get an annual increment just for doing the same job.
 
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I blame Thatcher :confused:
I have to agree with you, it was she who led us down the path of easy credit & led everyone to believe we could live like America. It was she who moved everyone with the an illness which prevented them doing manual labour & couldn't get an office job, from unemployment to sickness benefit so that the unemployment figures did not look as bad as they actually were.
 
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She could afford it - she had Nth Sea oil to pay for it - now almost gone (wasted).
 
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A long winded speech that cherry picks facts and is ideologically driven, which gives a number of conclusions without any supporting evidence or cases, and then takes these arguments to make a further unsupported conclusion.

LargeWrench said:
In 2007 before the start of the credit crunch, the budget deficit was almost £40 Billion. It was shockingly bad economic foresight.

£73 billion not £40 billion.

Why exactly are UKIP the answer?

It depends on the question.

The EU was supposed to be a free market, but at £10 billion a year that's not my definition of "free". You also need to understand that we don't need to be a member of the EU to influence trade laws or trade within the EU (unless you think china is part of the EU).

And as a member of the EU we are not able to negotiate trade agreements (EU Competency), that free trade agreement people are harking on about the EU "maybe" getting, we could have had one with them years ago, so there is a very real case to be made that it is stifling our economy, and of course you have all the arguments about our energy policy being what it is because of our politicians trying to meet EU standards.

Yes, UKIP have a lot of very stupid policies, but if you understand the way parliament and politics works, you'll see that if they got a large % of the vote, they might get us out of Europe, they have to push for that or they will implode.

But all their other silly ideas will meet resistance, and they just won't have to determination to push a lot of them through.
 
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