Are All Electric Vans This Bad?

Discussion in 'General Cars' started by ReganAndCarter, 20 Mar 2021.

  1. ReganAndCarter

    ReganAndCarter

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    I sometimes watch some Youtube videos of various trades and one of them is a London spark called Thomas Nagy. He reckons he bought a new Renault Kangoo van, which Renault claims a range of 140 miles for, but dealer said real world more like 120 miles.

    Anyway, he picked up the new van from dealer and only got 40 miles on motorway before he had to sit and wait for it to recharge - doesn't have fast charge. He seemed to be saying that if you use the van on the motorway, the range is greatly reduced. Also, the van has no air con or cruise control, etc. In 2021??

    How is this practical? Are all electric vans this bad? Presumably the pathetic range will drop off further as the batteries age? How much does one of these things cost? The action starts at 5:45 on video -

     
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  3. Swwils

    Swwils

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    Should of bought a Tesla then used the FYA, I've seen plumbers driving them about with boilers on roof racks!

    Its strange that the van is that bad, the first generation ZOEs were incredibly over engineered.

    But with a 33/22kWh battery back what do you expect. Even the first gen Prius had a 4.4kWh NIMH battery.

    I'd expect about 55 miles out of it realistically which is close to the low end of the 51-161 miles WLTP.

    Fast charging is incredibly important to have if you are comming from a liquid fuel car and expect a seamless transition. The transfer rate of energy with filling up with liquid fuel becomes obvious and something you take for granted when you can't fast charge a EV.
     
  4. chainsaw_masochist

    chainsaw_masochist

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    Is it not the case, though, that regular fast-charging will ultimately shorten the life of the car battery? In the event of batteries being consistently 'fast-charged' will this not result in a negative impact on second hand values for EVs? Whilst this may not be of paramount importamce to the original owner it is likely to be highly significant to the potential secondhand buyer.
     
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  5. Swwils

    Swwils

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    Surprisingly in general no; most manufacturers have found that cell life expectancy exceeded what they had expected. Especially in the UK where the low distances just mean that massive amounts of true rapid charing isn't feasible for personal use.

    There are a few exceptions though, that needed hardware updates to work out. Especially those that did not have active cooling or more advanced battery management.

    In a few years will no longer really be an issue at all as new technology comes down the line for the cells themselves, and manufacturers see the value in keeping cells around for a longer life cycle (initially in cars, then recovered for other uses).

    To give it some numbers, the average capacity loss of all EV makes is about 2% a year. Which continues linearly, so the battery pack will reasonably outlast the life of the vehicle, some makes get considerably better than this.
     
  6. ReganAndCarter

    ReganAndCarter

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    Very interesting, thanks. Out of interest, how long does it take on average to charge standard EV versus fast charge EV?
     
  7. Swwils

    Swwils

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    Best to think of it as rapid, fast and slow.

    Rapid is usually 50kW or 100kW+.

    It's safe to say that we should see harmonizing onto CHAdeMO 2.0 - which gives upto 400kWh (1000 V, 400 A) if your EV will take it!

    Fast is 7 kW or 22 kW (single- or three-phase 32A).

    Slow is 3 kW – 6 kW.

    This different types give you from 11 hours or more, to 7 minutes on a "typical" capacity.
     
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  8. flameport

    flameport

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    It's true that using an electric vehicle at motorway speeds will reduce the range - but not normally to the extent seen in the video.
    In the case of that van in the video, it either wasn't charged fully, or more likely it's a pile of crap.
    Much better electric vans are available.
     
  9. cozzmic

    cozzmic

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    Renault Master EV 75 mile range, useless and costs a fortune but there is talk of hydrogen one to increase range. Kangoo type van 40k!!!!
     
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  11. ericmark

    ericmark

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    The milk man across the road to where I use to live had an electric long wheel base Ranault Kangoo van for his milk round, fixed mileage seem to remember 64 miles, and he was told it should do 120 miles, he never used the heater other than to de-ice, and he said the energy meter hardly moved during his round, but would drop quickly on his return journey, in the main he would do the round OK, but some times it did fail, he said he could limp home, but the Police stopped him for not making normal progress, and it had to be transported home, on average 3 times a year.

    He seemed to think the fault was for some reason not fully charged, as using his standby vehicle for one day so full 24 hours on charge and it was OK. But the energy meter did not show incomplete charge before the failure.

    He said had it not been a fixed mileage each day, and a fixed charge time each day, he would have just said he had gone too far, but 98% of the time there was no problem, and over all it worked very well, it had a lot of advantages, no need to find a garage open to refuel as always done at home, and no noise, he said with diesel kids would hear the vehicle and steal milk, but that stopped as they could not hear him, and his customers liked the lack of noise that time of the morning.

    However 64 miles with stated range of 120 miles it should not run out of charge, and with a petrol or diesel vehicle motorway use tends to use less fuel as nice even speed, so we have become use to vehicles without regenerative braking, Bedford CF Electric was introduced in 1982 and battery technology at the time not advancing the government scheme wound down in 1987. In other words we have seen it all before, only with government schemes can the electric car or van succeed, and the time to refuel is a problem, with cars in the 70's we had the vacuum gauge, today we have a fuel use meter showing miles per gallon, and over the years we have refined our driving techniques to give us a reasonable MPG, but moving to electric this all changes, and as yet we have not adapted to it.
     
  12. Smufter

    Smufter

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    I'm a car salesman and have been selling electric vans (both Nissan and Peugeot) for the last few years. I've got to be honest, the ones I've tried have had terrible range compared to electric cars.
     
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  13. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Problem solved by THIS and a few minor alterations
     
  14. blup

    blup

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    I think his issue is that he was sold a van with a lower capacity battery than he thought he was buying.

    Blup
     
  15. Munroast

    Munroast

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    can you convert that to miles per hour of charge
     
  16. Swwils

    Swwils

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    No because all EV have different capacities, efficiency and charge capability.

    VW have a very efficient eGolf, but it's range is still only 80 or so miles. The model S, is less efficient but has a much larger total range.

    Roughly, a 250kW charging capable car could do 5 minutes of charging and get 100km - but you couldn't realistically get this installed at your house - where the local grid will limit you to 11kw or so.

    350kw charging cars comming this year and UK already has its first chargers that can do this already.

    It's possible Mercedes and Tesla will do an electric sprinter - as they have a long history together.
     
  17. HERTS P&D

    HERTS P&D

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    Try using an electric 3.5ton van, fully loaded. No chance, the technology is not there yet for commercial vehicles.

    Andy
     
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