Barn Conversion 1st Fix question

[andy1496]

Hi.
we are just at first fix stage of our barn conversion and I had a query about part M of building regs.

Basically I am a bit miffed that we have to have plug sockets and wall sockets in what I consider to be less than ideal heights in order to comply with part M.

We are also not really that keen on building an access ramp to the front door and would have liked to have some nice old stone steps up to the front door.

Anyway, I decided to carefully look at part M of Building Regs and it appears that we may not have to comply with them.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_600512.pdf

If you look at page 8, para 2. It would seem to me that these regs only apply to a new build or a building that had been demolished leaving only external walls. Neither of these scenarios apply to our project

Please someone tell me that we don't have to comply with part M and can have our sockets and switches where we want 'em

Many Thanks

Andy Brown
http://barnfree.moonfruit.com/

 

[numpty with a crowbar]

Not gonna profess to be an expert or even give advice that's definitely correct, but this is what I was told about sockets / switches when I did all the 1st fix for my gaff (2 months ago).
Sockets must be 300mm above finished floor level (kind of odd but it does make life a lot easier - I was expecting to have them at floor level (until my spark set me right) but it's sooo much easier when it comes to plugging / unplugging things - no bending right over etc etc
Switches should be 1350mm AFFL (I think - might be a little bit out on that one - happy to be corrected).

At the end of the day you can fix the sockets / switches at whatever hieght takes yer fancy - but don't expect any tradesman to sign it off as they won't because it won't comply with the building regs that they have to conform to.

As for the ramp.... Are we talking a ramp for disables access??? What use will the building be used for?? Business?? Public access?? Because if it's a domestic property I'm not aware that you have to fit a ramp - if you do them a majjority of new builds will eb braking the rules in that case as most have steps in some shape or form

 

[andy1496]

Sockets must be 300mm above finished floor level

According to section 8 of Part M they should be no lower than 450mm from finished floor.

As for the ramp.... Are we talking a ramp for disables access??? What use will the building be used for??

This is for disabled access which is what part M of building Regs relates to:
"Access and Facilities for the Disabled".

..and yes its being converted into a private residential dwelling.

Thanks
Andy B

 

[HandyJon]

Private residential buildings (dwellings) don't need ramps (unless there really is a disabled person living in the home!).

The bottom of sockets must be 450mm above the floor, and the top of switches must be 1200mm above the floor. In theory either of them has to be between 450mm and 1200mm so you could have sockets at 1200mm too!

This is only necessary in rooms likely to be used by disabled visitors. One of the aims is to allow older people who are getting less mobile to stay in their homes longer, but it doesn't mean fully indpendent liviing. But having sockets and switches at one height in some rooms and at other heights in other rooms is a bit disconcerting. Personally I find switches at that height a natural place, sockets on other hand do stand out visually from the wall but it is a comfortable height at which to use them. If they're near corners then the visual impact is lessened so maybe think about where your sockets go.

When all is said and done, the height specs are only one way of providing the means of satisfying the requirements. Another way would be to have extension leads placed at the appropriate height, which when not in use could be put away. You'd just need a couple of nails to hook the extension on to. One way of handling switches would be to use a X10 system (remote control) then you could put the switch anywhere, including in a cushion on the sofa!

 

[numpty with a crowbar]

Sockets must be 300mm above finished floor level

According to section 8 of Part M they should be no lower than 450mm from finished floor.

As for the ramp.... Are we talking a ramp for disables access??? What use will the building be used for??

This is for disabled access which is what part M of building Regs relates to:
"Access and Facilities for the Disabled".

..and yes its being converted into a private residential dwelling.

Thanks
Andy B

OK then - sockets - as I said I can only go off what happened to me 2 months ago, and it was definitely 300mm for sockets - and tha's been signed off as well - maybe you're reading the regs for business premises rather than domestic - 450mm is half a meter up the wall and sounds a bit crazy for domestic - for business it makes a bit more sense when you think about PC power requirements etc etc.

Ramps - Hmmmm - that's got to be for businesses, there's no way that Prescott and his army of idiot munchkins at ODPM could have slipped through the requirement that all domestic dwelling need disabled ramps. That's got to only apply to public places like student digs / hotels etc etc. Like I said - if it is for all dwellings then A) it makes them all look rubbish, and B) most new builds will in breach of the regs. Lookign at the contents of the thing it goes into stuff like disabled netties, handrails (though in loos's they're kind of useful as a "straining bar" while trying to pass the kind of stuff that killed Elvis), lifts etc etc.

like I say - I'm nothing like an expert (anything but), but they way that document you linked to reads - it's for businesses not domestic. What you fit on your house is for you to decide - by all means make it wheelchair friendly if you want, but I don't think there's any requirement. As you say - it's "private" - and therefore none of the business of the disability dicrimination stasi

 

[greaseball]

Top of socket and light switch are 450mm and 1200mm as per the IEE Regs, Part P regs and On Site Guide. Any electrician knows this and anything less should not have been signed off. Applicable to rooms where persons of limited ability are likely to use, so must have gotten around it by this clause.

 

[numpty with a crowbar]

Top of socket and light switch are 450mm and 1200mm as per the IEE Regs, Part P regs and On Site Guide. Any electrician knows this and anything less should not have been signed off. Applicable to rooms where persons of limited ability are likely to use, so must have gotten around it by this clause.

Ahh - yes - "Limited ability" - that's the fella.... Both me and my better half are both fully able bodied and quite capable of fully bodily function - although the spark that advised me / did the second fix / signed off would debate the isue of my limited ability (but he's a mate so he would do ) - the number of times he set me right on things you wouldn't believe

Again though - if a house (a private one) is for the use of able bodies people only then there's no need for 450mm sockets and a ramp - hurrah!!

 

[steviec]

the firm i used to work for built new houses under the NHBC 10 year guarantee,and we were always made to put ramps in,even if the houses were sold to people who were'nt wheelchair bound.If the client didn,t want a ramp ,we would build a :tempory ramp: laid on visqueen ,built from bricks and paving stones.Once the NHBC inspector had passed the house ,the ramp was taken apart,leaving no mess.

 

[andy1496]

Thanks for all the reply's chaps.

sorry I haven't responded before now, had a few days pointing got about 10% of it done.

Cheers

Andy Brown

 

[Mr Winston]

Both me and my better half are both fully able bodied and quite capable of fully bodily function

Again though - if a house (a private one) is for the use of able bodies people only then there's no need for 450mm sockets and a ramp - hurrah!!

The theory that 'i'm alright so i dont need to do it' would be fine if people never moved house (or got old; or had accidents/illnesses etc)

Regarding the silly ramps infront of peoples houses - they do apply to new domestic houses not just commercial buildings. The reason we dont see every new house with them is that the ramp is an alternative solution if a level approach to the house cannot be provided (which is the normal and preferred way of meeting the regulation)

The sockets and lightswitches and doorbells and thermostats and entryphones and keyholes and etc etc should be located in the 450mm-1200mm zone. Obviously most of these items are best placed at 1200mm for ease of use.

I live in a new home and the switches and sockets look perfectly normal, are at the same height throughout(which is aesthetically pleasing ) and are easy to reach which is the basis of the regs.

Also the regulation for wider doors is great for access - moving into the new pad was a breeze compared to moving out of the old place