Best wood glues now?

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by Furkin, 26 Jan 2021.

  1. Furkin

    Furkin

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    Hi guys,
    What are the best wood glues currently?
    What is the best exterior wood glue?
    What is the fastest setting wood glue?

    Also, what's the best 'superglue'?
    I still haven't found anything close to 'super'.

    Hope you are all keeping well.
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2021
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  3. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    TBH any equivalent grade of PVA from a major manufacturer is much the same as another, but it's the grade (D2, D3 or D4) indicating the degree of weather "proofness" you need to be aware of. D2 is for dry interior use only (e.g furniture), D3 is suitable for exterior use "in sheltered positions" whilst D4 is more durable still. For general joinery use D4 PVA is both inexpensive and works well. Look for EverBuild brand at places like Toolstation. Whatever else, as in much of life, don't buy cheap no name crap and stick with the main manufacturers (Evode, Everbuild, Ellmers , etc)

    As to setting speed, a lot of that is a nonsense. At 20°C water based glues such as PVA set faster than they do at 15° but slower than they do at 25°. The times quoted on the bottle are always hopelessly optimistic and in any case many water based glues require 12 to 24 hours to reach full bond strength. Glueing wood isn't the same as making an Airfix kit

    Whilst we are on the subject of water based glues it's worth mentioning that in the current cold temperatures they are all but useless for exterior work and can even separate and become useless if left in a shed overnight in sub zero temperatures. Below 5°C PVA sets very slowly, meaning that full strength might take 2 to 3 times as long as normal to reach. PVA also starts to "chalk out" around the 2°C mark meaning that the joint has reduced strength and could fail if stressed.

    Despite all this D4 PVA is still the best all rounder with the Everbond D4 having an initial setting time of around 15 to 20 minutes at 15°C (full strength 12 hours plus)

    In general for woodworking use the fastest setting glues in general use are polyurethane resin glues (PU). You can get these with (initial) setting times of 5 minutes up.to about 1 hour. There are a number of issues with these, however. 5 minutes is a very short setting time and can be too fast, especially if you are assembling a more complex piece. The joints need to be a fairly tight fit and adequate clamping is a must to ensure that the foaming of the glue doesn't end up blowing the pieces apart a few millimetres. Cleaning up blow out is time consuming and can lead to problems later on when finishing the item (where it has been will preventbtake up of stain and will show through even clear finishes as a milky colour). PU glues are also damaged by storage at sub zero temperatures in the same way that PVA is and additionally they have a limited shelf life once opened and must be stored tightly sealed. This is because they are activated by moisture in the air or wood and of course air in a half empty bottle contains moisture

    In terms of super glue, what exactly were you trying to join? Adhesives are very much specific so trying to use acrylic adhesive such as Tensol on leather or wood will never work. Same goes for wood glues - good on timber, crap on glass, and so on. There never was and never will be a "best", whilst there is a most appropriate, similarly absolute speed can be a curse rather than a blessing
     
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  4. Furkin

    Furkin

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    A fabulous and informative reply to an endless question - thank you.

    Like most things, I don't usually go on what's 'on the tin' (or for that matter, many so called 'reviews' on sellers sites).
    I'd rather ask people in the know, that use things all the time - hence my visit here. I realise also that experts opinions will differ, but if they explain why, then we are getting somewhere.

    I've just been looking at Mitre Pen adhesives, which are supposed to be fast (maybe too fast) but it seems they are only for MDF type stuff.
    Of course whatever we are sticking needs to stay stuck !

    Thanks again for tasking the time to put this together for me - and possibly others !
     
  5. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Mitre Mate, Mitre Bond, et al are formulated for mitres joints in architraves, skirtings and mouldings, etc. As such they have little intrinsic strength, the main purpose being to quickly hold a mitred joint together whilst you position and fix the mouldings to a substrate (e.g. architraves pinned to door linings, skirtings pinned and GripFilled to walls, etc). Wrong stuff to use for a lot of woodworking tasks other than the lightest duty ones
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2021
  6. Furkin

    Furkin

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    ah,,,, Justin Time,
    I was about to order one from screwfix, along with a couple of others.

    I realise that this might seem like a very basic question to a lot of experts out there.
    Years, and years ago, I used to swear by Evo-stik and then onto Exterior Evo-stik. I was thinking that things might have moved on since then - hence my quest.
    Presently I'm only re-building a couple of drawer units, and using Uhu External that I have on the shelf, but still seeking exterior stuff for later.
    I see Evo-stik & Gorilla at D3, but still looking for D4, hopefully from screwfix (other suppliers are available) as i'm placing an order anyway.

    As you say J&K, Toolstation carries quite a few D4, whilst S/F only one - but it says Interior use D4.
    Looks like a trip to Toolstation tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: 27 Jan 2021
  7. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Evostik Resin W is still around in interior (green, D2) and exterior (blue, D3) forms. Nothing wrong with Resin W, other than there is no D4 version. Used it for many years before the D4 PVAs arrived

    I think you maybe out of luck. Toolstation sell both the Everbuild D4 PVA and the D4 PU - I'd recommend the PVA over the PU for general woodworking
     
  8. Furkin

    Furkin

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    what a fool,,,,,,,,,,,, I meant Resin 'W', but couldn't count as high as W ! I used it since it came out - I think it was in the late 60's. I don't think there was a choice - just Resin 'w'. Exterior came out a bit after.
    I've ordered a 1lt D4 pva to try. Well I say "try", I already know it's great :)
     
  9. lynchnigel

    lynchnigel

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    Dont forget about Cascamite resin which is very good for complicated assembly that needs a lot of adjustment, as you usually have a good hour or so for adjustment.Waterproof and good for outdoor joinery. Comes as a powder which you mix with water quantity measured out. Good glue lines and dries to glass like, easy to remove with water.
     
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  11. Furkin

    Furkin

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    Right guys,
    Next one, which glue sticks melamine ?
    I tried Uhu exterior, and TS D4, fully clamped, and after 4 cabinets, when I took the clamps off, the top wasn't stuck ! (I gotta check the other 3 now,,,,, and 12 drawers !?>)
    I am sticking wood to wood, wood to melamine and melamine to melamine. I'm hampered for space and rebuilding these cabinets in the bathroom, so I can't keep 'em hanging about very long, but they gotta stay stuck.

    lynchnigel: Cascamite - that's another one I haven't heard of for over 50 years,,,, since in fact, I lived in Nottingham ! I grew up in Carlton, & Gedling. Anywhere near you ? I moved here in 1970 !!
     
  12. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Contact adhesive (I prefer Evo 528 when I can get it) or heat activated adhesive tape. Those are about the only things to use if you are attaching melamine or any form of phenolic laminate (e.g Formica) to timber substrate. Contact adhesives also.qoek.on mist metals, but with some plastics the solvent in the adhesive can attack the plastic.

    With contact adhesives you need to put a thin coat of adhesive onto both surfaces and let every thoroughly (15 to 30minutes for solvent- based products before pressing together. A presser pad (several layers of thick felt wrapped round a wooden block) or better still a laminate J-roller, ideally worked outwards from the centre or from one end, is needed to ensure that no air is trapped between laminate and substrate. Supporting the laminate atop 12 or 18mm MDF scrap rips which are removed one by one as you roll the laminate down is the best approach to take with long items such as servery counters.

    Potentially porous materials such as chipboard may make it necessary to double coat the timber with the glue (butnot the laminate) - the first coat acts as a sealer but won't always give consistent "sticking" power. Obviously you need to cut the laminate slightly oversize and then trim the edges with an appropriate router cutter when you have stuck it down. I tend to go for larger diameter cutters with bigger guide bearings because I find they clog up less and are far less likely to burn. Clean-up can be done with Evostik solvent or even lighter fuel but use sparingly to avoid it dissolving glue and unsticking glued down stuff
     
    Last edited: 6 Feb 2021
  13. Furkin

    Furkin

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    J&K: What makes the 528 better than original please ?

    UPDATE:

    Well, Uhu wood glue won’t stick melamine. Toolstation D4 won’t stick melamine. Evo stick won’t stick melamine.
    Gorilla say, they don’t do anything to stick melamine, nor do Bostick. Bostick also said, “I suspect this is a one off”. They seem to think that I am the only person wanting to stick melamine !

    Luckily (?!%£), I came across Titebond Melamine wood glue,,,, but guess what – that doesn’t stick melamine either – that is despite being well clamped.

    [​IMG]
    My next project is to build some large storage cupboards (90x48x24”) next, out of melamine (unless you people know where I can buy them reasonably. I want at least 3).

    I am now a disabled pensioner, and don’t have a lot of room,,,, or time,,,, to build them out of much else, and paint them etc.


    I was also looking for a long pozi2 driver.

    I bought one from ebay, which seemed ok for a while, but then when using it on smaller screws on brackets etc, the tip got chewed up. Maybe these screws are harder.

    This started me looking into steel strengths for screwdrivers.

    Firstly, the only 500mm driver I can find, is the one on ebay !

    The only one harder than Chrome vanadium - S2 - but even that's only CV when it arrives !

    To those interested, here is a shortlist of steel hardness’s, for screwdrivers – that’s if you can find anything harder.

    High Carbon
    Chrome Vanadium
    Chrome Molybdenum
    S2 steel
    Chrome Vanadium Molybdenum (CVM)
    Protanium (this might belong to a specific company).

    F
     
    Last edited: 15 Feb 2021
  14. Bit off topic as not wood related, but be wary when buying any glue that says it's suitable for plastics. The phrase has no meaning. Plastics as I'm sure you are aware are a generic term for plasticised polymers and come in a huge variety with different compositions and properties. In order to stand a chance of successfully gluing or as often is the case bonding plastic, you first need to know what type of plastic it is and what you're bonding it to. Then you need to see if there is an adhesive or bonding agent that is suitable (there is a good possibility there is none)
     
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  15. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    It has a higher solids content. In the shop fitting it is often the contact adhesive of choice for bonding mica-bases laminates to plywood, solid wood, MDF, chipboard, MDF, OSB, metals and some plastics (must be thermoset/solvent resistant such as Tufnol/phenolic resins etc). The performance durability and range of materials is far better than the thinner red can stuff, and there is less tendency to creep in service as well as less need to pre-prime porous substrates (e.g. OSB). However, even the red can stuff is better than all the glues you mentioned

    Our local ironmongers sells CK long PZD#1, #2 and #3. They are German made and has a transparent red/orange handle. Maybe worth looking for, but they are only about 300mm. Beyond that use hex drive bit holders and Wera impact driver bits
     
    Last edited: 15 Feb 2021
  16. lynchnigel

    lynchnigel

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    Or have a look on ebay for Yankee screwdrivers, if you do just watch your pinkies, they extend and are sprung and can make holes in limbs if not treated with respect.

    Apparently searching, roo glue sticks melamine.
    https://rooglue.com/product/rooclear/
     

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    Last edited: 17 Feb 2021
  17. JobAndKnock

    JobAndKnock

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    Problem is it ain't available in the UK, is it?
     
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