Building astride the party wall line - help needed

J

jonbunk

Appreciate some help.

We're a semi detached house and have planning permission for a 3.75m single rear extension and 2m double rear extension to our house.

Our neighbours are quite frankly a little odd and reasoning on logic is rather difficult.

We have served a party wall notice but they are refusing permission for us to extend astride what would be the party wall line and insisting that we build on our own land - up to the party wall boundary.

They have permission for a single rear extension but have yet to do the works and their property is up for sale.

It would be in both parties interests for us to build astride the theoretical party line (currently a fence);
- avoids our extension kicking in
- allows neigbours or potential purchasers to extend up to the new wall
- avoids an unsightly gap in the middle once they / future owners extend
- avoids problems of future damp, leaves, animals in between future gaps if they extend

It's obviously within their right, but have a few questions;
- would they in effect gain the additional land in the middle or can I put a fence alongside my wall if we have to build on my land (they might not extend for years...)
- I assume they would not be able to put anything on my wall if it's on my side but how do I seperate my wall from them - a fence?

How can I make them see sense that it is in their interests to build astride;

Could I basically grant them the right to build on the boundary wall at a later stage and if so could I show them how much this would be worth to them even though I'm not going to charge? i..e value from not selling them the right but giving them the right free, value this has on the planning permission they have for resellability given they are on the market.

Any other suggestions?

Their party wall surveyor thinks they are mad but obviously cannot change their mind.

If I put the party wall notice on hold (i.e paid the account but did no more) could this hamper them selling the property on - perhaps a trump card for me?

Also, can they refuse me putting scaffolding on their side if it prevents me from building some of the works?

Thanks, Jonathan
 
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Can't see how it would necessarily be "in their interest" to let you do what you want to do, unless they were constructing at the same time - in which case the PWeA would be redundant anyway.

If they insist on your wall being up to the boundary and no further, there's - rightly - nothing that you (legally) can do about it.

The PWeA can't make them accept the wall being over the boundary.Your footing can go over the boundary under a PWeA award (although there's no need, an eccentric footing will work fine), but that's it.

If the face of your wall is placed on the boundary, you can't stop them in the future coming up to and making use of that wall. They would need a PWeA Award, as you will no doubt object, but it won't change the eventuality.

If you put PWeA award on hold, it's all only valid for 12 months, so any longer and you'll have to start the whole process all over again. With more fees obviously.

You have no trump card, nor should you have in this situation. You are trying to bully them into doing what you want. You want an extension and they don't, so why should they give 150mm or so of their land over to you, on the off-chance that they might build in the future?

For the record, I think the PWeA is an extremely badly drafted piece of legislation, but even with my jaundiced view of it, I can accept that this is one situation where it actually serves a purpose.
 
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If the face of your wall is placed on the boundary, you can't stop them in the future coming up to and making use of that wall.

Unless you keep it 10mm in, and inform the neighbours that the boundary remains in its original place?

TBH, I cant see it being in their interest for the wall to be astride the boundary. Surely is better to have detached extensions, to minimise noise transfer?

The PW award will detail if you can put scaffold on their land or not, along with everything else you must do.

The PW Act being on hold will not affect their sale. It's not a dispute
 
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Unless you keep it 10mm in, and inform the neighbours that the boundary remains in its original place?
I believe that's called spite...and, as the AO, if that was the case, I'd be watching very carefully for any projections whatsoever, extending more than 10mm from the wall face...

Surely is better to have detached extensions, to minimise noise transfer?
As in, to paraphrase Mr Orwell, two leaves good, four leaves better?? Are you anticipating the death of the cavity party wall?:rolleyes: ;)
 
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J

jonbunk

I've noticed that coming off the party wall we have a fence. From the wall there is a fencepost and then the fence sits on top of 2 courses of bricks which are astride the party wall line.

In theory would this support or change any rules to me being able to insist I build astride the party wall as in effect you could say the party wall is extended already by these 2 course of bricks the fence sits on?

Justr a thought?

Thanks, Jonathan
 
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I've noticed that coming off the party wall we have a fence. From the wall there is a fencepost and then the fence sits on top of 2 courses of bricks which are astride the party wall line.

In theory would this support or change any rules to me being able to insist I build astride the party wall as in effect you could say the party wall is extended already by these 2 course of bricks the fence sits on?

Justr a thought?

Thanks, Jonathan

The PWA gives you the right to build directly on the line of junction (i.e. directly up to the boundary line) but does not give you the right to go on (or above) your neighbours land to do so. The PWA does not give that right for building works and nor does the access to neighbouring land act. So if you do decide to go ahead without consent you need to have a plan as to how you are going to finish the wall face?

You could build overhand in brick - but bear in mind that waving a trowel over your neighbours land is technically trespassing. I've seen walls left in rough blockwork - just to spite the neighbour. After all, it's them that will be looking at it. I've also seen walls roughly rendered overhand. It's rough but, again, it's the neighbour that looks at it every day. If there's a gutter on the wall you need enough room for that as well.

If you aren't prepared to go down that route you either need to write off the space between your new wall and the neighbour or you need to leave enough space to gain access for maintenance. If you stop maintaining your neighbour will eventually take possession of that strip of land.
 
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In my previous house when I did the extension, I was concered about ball games up MY wall, so I said to the neighbour I would put a trellis up so it would look nice, that stopped any ball games.
Have moved now
 

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