Combi Boiler - condensate pipe/pressure valve

[AndyJay]

Hi.
I've just had a new combi boiler fitted in the garage. The garage door is flush with the house front door facing the road.
The installer has fitted two pipes that are routed around the garage and end up going through the garage wooden frame and over the outside drainage.
Apart from looking quite ugly, how much condensation should i expect to come out of these pipes? Are they absolutely necessary?
i'm a little annoyed because i wasn't told that these pipes would be sticking out of the front of my house. The system has not been completely installed yet.

Thanks
Andy

 

[chrishutt]

The condensate pipe is the white, 22mm (?) plastic one, which has to connect by some means to a drainage system. Where it runs externally it should be protected against freezing. Condensate will normally run fairly constantly during boiler operation, although the volume will vary.

The other (pressure release valve discharge) pipe is presumably 15mm (possibly 22mm) copper and needs only to discharge outside in a safe location, since it will not normally discharge anything. However if certain faults developed with the boiler, this pipe might possibly discharge steam and boiling water, hence the safety aspect.

the obvious question to ask is if it is possible for these pipes to pass through the side wall of your house/garage and discharge in a more discrete location.

 

[AndyJay]

Thanks chrishutt

Our garage joins with next doors so it isn't possible to go through the side. if only i had been told that i'd have two ugly pipes sticking out the front of my house, one which will be running water on a regular basis, i would not have had the system. I slight ommission i think.

I'm not sure what to do about it. The installers are coming to finish off tomorrow and i don't think that i can get use to the idea.

Call me fussy, but it just doens't seem right to me.

Is ther no other alternative to these pipes?

Andy

 

[chrishutt]

No alternative to pipes, but the condensate pipe could connect to drain/waste pipe/soil pipe internally. The PRV discharge pipe doesn't need to extend far externally, just a few inches in most cases.

 

[blahblah]

Depending on the external run that condensate pipe may even be in 32mm and wrapped in armaflex!

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

if only i had been told that i'd have two ugly pipes sticking out the front of my house, one which will be running water on a regular basis, i would not have had the system.
I'm not sure what to do about it.
Call me fussy, but it just doens't seem right to me.

Is ther no other alternative to these pipes?

Andy

Not a lot you can do about it m8! Have you seen the building regs we have to work to these days?
don't worry though cos over the next few years everyone else will have similar stuff as politicians try to save the earth from impending doom caused by global warming.
The good news if you could call it that is that there are other ways of heating your house but they either cost many times more either to install or run, plus you will have to break a lot more eggs to make the same omelette.

A few examples

1. oil fired conventional boiler more freedom with where your flue goes. say 50% dearer than your gas condenser to buy
25% more to run and a bloody big tank in your garden that needs filling up. And it wont be an option after april 2007

2. Electric, horrible night storage heaters that heat up at 2.5 times cost of nat gas overnight, then the next day they either run out of heat [top up at 5x cost] or you dont need the heat that they have stored which you lose anyway.
2a Amptec or similar electric boilers. Neat, not too dear, Not a bad set up BUT 5x dearer to run. Environmentally nasty as they burned fossil fuels to create the electricity

3 Ground source heat pump probably will take over your garage and involves digging six foot deep trenches or piles all over your land. If indeed you have enough land. Cheap to run. State of the art. But have they mastered the art yet? Grants available but still pricey.

 

[ChrisR]

Would it help if the pipes came out at ground level? Note that the condensate pipe is NOT allowerd to just discharge onto the ground.

 

[AndyJay]

Thanks Slugbabydotcom for that err information!

Regardless of any regulations, the installers should have told me that this was required. Then i could have looked at alternative places to put the boiler.
I bet he has it nicely installed in his house.

Andy

 

[oilman]

................... Note that the condensate pipe is NOT allowerd to just discharge onto the ground.

But it can go into a small soakaway.

 

[AndyJay]

Hi oilman

Forgive me but what exactly is a soakaway?
I'll post a photo tomorrow.

I'm writing this after the installers have completed the installation.
Every single carpet in my house is now stained with the dirty water from each of the old radiators and the airing tank. There is now a trail of black drips from where the airing tank was, through the back bedroom and down the stairs. The installer did use old bed sheets on the floor but these haven't prevented the mess.
They had a major accident today when they filled the new system with compressed air to test for leaks. There were a few. The guy went round the house tightening each of these. One valve on one of the radiotors in the living room snapped off when he tried to tighten it. With the pressure built in the system and the water left in the pipes, ther was an almighty noise and everyting in close proximity was covered in jet black water.

The carpet is filthy, an oil paiting above is ruined, cushions, lamp shades, patio door blinds are all ruined. The ceiling and walls were black and are still stained.
The guys have done their best in cleaning up the mess but it's stained them all.

Plaster has been knocked from around the living room window frame.

Where the old boiler vent was, the guys have replaced the hole with half bricks that don't match the original bricks at all.

I now have damaged plaster in the kitchen extention, which i have no idea how was caused.


They installers said that to save me getting in touch with the insurers, they would send someone in to clean the carpets and re-paint the living room walls and ceiling.

When they left, no mention of sending anyone in to clean things up was made.

One thing they did mention, here's my invoive.

This is 100% true.
I'm now sitting here having a beer trying to chill.

I'd love to hear what you would do if you were in my position.

Thank You!

Andy

 

[oilman]

AndyJay, my jaw has dropped so far I'm surprised at my reaction. If what you say is fact, I would not be allowed to do what I'd like to do as there are laws to stop it.

The soakaway is a small pit filled with something with plenty of gaps in it to maintain the pit over the years, usually brick rubble or large shingle, but better is a bag of charcoal.

Stains on one carpet is unfortunate but easy to do as it seems possible to get the old items out without spilling anything. After the first one (several houses ago) you learn it isn't possible, so you bung the ends of radiators and pipes, then it doesn't happen. You might find that the stains will come out with a carpet cleaner as long as it's black, if it's brown, it's rust and is the best staining chemical known, and rarely (probably never) comes out.

Air testing is positively dangerous for a system, there's a lot of stored energy, the test should have been done at no more than 2 or 3 psi and even then release the pressure before doing anything.

With what you say about the condensate and prv pipes that sounded like a poor job. With the rest of the story it sounds like revenge as you probably didn't provide adequate stabling for the guy's horses.

If you haven't paid, don't, not yet anyway. Don't pussyfoot around, I hope you got some photo's of the damage, put it down in writing and send them a letter. I'd also send a letter to the trading standards office. Plumbers know old pipes drip black water and sometimes brown, it's easy to plug the ends or bend the ends closed.

If you selected the firm as they were the cheapest, it might be an unpleasant lesson, though I don't see that as an excuse for a sloppy job.

 

[silverback]

You can buy a soakaway specifically designed for taking condense (McAlpine), it is a circular plastic contaner approx 100mm in diameter and about 300mm deep, it has a connection on top that will except 32mm plastic or overflow pipe and it should be filled with limestone chippings, this helps neutralise the condense.
If a condense pipe is rum externally you can either run it in overflow and insulate it, or increase the diameter to 32mm, you do not need to insulate 32mm condense.

 

[ollski]

Unbelievable, don't pay a penny until the insurance work is paid for and completed to your satisfaction.

 

[chrishutt]

You must take lots of pictures, and post them here! We all desperately want to see the evidence.

Seriously though, any competent heating engineer knows well enough the risks of staining from sludge in rads, etc. and we take precautions to ensure it doesn't happen. I use highly absorbent dust sheets for example. There really is no excuse for what you describe.

I would be making complaints if I was you. Are the installers Corgi registered and/or members of any trade organisations like IPHE? If you let them get away with it, why should the rest of us try to maintain proper standards?

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

If it was 5 rads and a combi for £1495.00 then you got what you deserved, if you paid about £3000 to £3500 then take them to the cleaners as they want their arses kicking, sound a right bunch of ******s, cant call them cowboys as cowboys are useful.