Combi boiler in loft (timber framed building regs)

BFG

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I am installing a combi boiler in our loft, which will be commissioned by a Corgi-reg plumber when complete.

The manual references adherence to regulations when sited in a timber framed building. It makes sense that this also applies to my loft.

I understand these are primarily to do with distances from combustible materials, but I'm unable to find the references anywhere (well, anywhere free) on the net. My local library doesn't have a copy. Can anyone help?

Document: IGE/UP/7/1998 "Guide for Gas Installations in
Timber Framed Dwellings"
 
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Isn't that the point of getting a qualified Corgi guy to install the boiler?

Have you already arranged for someone to commission?, I think you may struggle there, I can't think of any Corgi guys that would go in and put their name to an installation that was not at least over seen by them.
 
There are other things to be concerned about other than gas safety. Building regs, frost problems, specific boiler shortcomings... Any mistake could be expensive. Take the advice!
 
I find that perspective frustrating.

This is my third install with no problems. I just can;t find my copy of the regs.
 
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ChrisR said:
There are other things to be concerned about other than gas safety.

Building regs,
Loft is boarded, there is a fixed ladder, fixed light, fixed banister.

ChrisR said:
frost problems,
Vaillant has built in frost thermostat. Also, pipes will be boxed in with insulation, and there will be partition walls made around the boiler to enclose it. The boiler is a sealed-room type - all part of the plan.

ChrisR said:
specific boiler shortcomings... Any mistake could be expensive. Take the advice!
See above re - all part of the plan. Also, this model is well researched and I've put a Vaillant combi in my last house and my parents house - all passed commissioning no problem, and in the process I taught the Corgi guy a thing or two about lateral thinking as well.

There are many very helpful plumbers around. The one that I have chosen to perform the comissioning work spent 1/2hr on the phone to me discussing the job, and this won me over.

Better than the other end of the scale, where I was told that "in the front of the manual it says Must be installed by Corgi fitter - so you have to mate". When I pointed out that every electrical appliance has a statement in the front saying it a plug can only be changed by a qualified electrican, that changed things and they started talking prices.

The Corgi registrations offer a valid safety perspective for the consumer and I applaud it. However, the adherence to regs somewhat slips if I fein interest in a full install, then - all of a sudden I am told not to worry about boarded loft and fixed lights - and when I ask if they are also qualified to do the electrical work under IIEE, they try and persuade me that such things are not so relevant.

I suspect those types of plumber are glad of the Corgi edict as a useful sales tool in addition to its safety benefits.

There is no easy answer. I try to be philosophical that many tradesmen treat persons outside their trade as beneath competence. My Engineering qualifications seem to count for very little.:)
 
You're probably right about the abuses as well as benefits of CORGI. But lots of people on this board are novices or keen but over-confident DIYers ask whether they should use a candle or a match to find the gas leak. And the helpful people who give advice are keen to watch out for people who sound like they are about to kill themselves.

Good on you if you know what you're doing, hope it works out and the CORGI guy checks it over thoroughly.
 
BFG said:
I find that perspective frustrating.

This is my third install with no problems. I just can;t find my copy of the regs.

Thats what they all say :LOL: :LOL:
 
So you have really answered your own question, have you not?

You can't find the regs that you need, but you are competent in fitting a boiler? Part of the acs assessments that all corgi Engineers and Plumbers have to pass at great expense is to demonstrate an ability to find the regs required.
If you were truly competent you would have all the resources at hand and be aware of the ever changing Gas safety, Building regs and local authority regs.

I suggest you contact your friendly Plumber and if he is indeed competent in Gas safety he will advise you further.

Incidently what size gas supply is being fitted to the boiler?
 
BDL said:
So you have really answered your own question, have you not?

You can't find the regs that you need, but you are competent in fitting a boiler? Part of the acs assessments that all corgi Engineers and Plumbers have to pass at great expense is to demonstrate an ability to find the regs required.
If you were truly competent you would have all the resources at hand and be aware of the ever changing Gas safety, Building regs and local authority regs.

And I take it that you are? So what are they then? By your own assertion you should know them off the top of your head, surely?

Or would you need to look them up? Like I have to. ;) ;)

You see, my original post mentioned I couldn't find them for free, That was my point! Anyone capable of a modicum of research ability can discover where docs are. But I can't, without paying a £50 subscription to British Standards, get hold of them. As par tof my Eng qualification I had to study law, so I know how to research.

So I thought I'd try a DIY forum for some advice, but end up without any - just some prodding from professionals. What are you guys doing in a DIY forum anyway? If not to help, what? To ply for trade? ;) ;)

BDL said:
Incidently what size gas supply is being fitted to the boiler?


BDL - The gas supply will be fitted by my plumber as I don't have a gas tester, and it would be illegal if I did. But if I were to do it, it would be 28mm, down to 22. However, in order for you to know if this was right to regs you'd have to know the height of my house and how many bends. But, as we know, most plumbers don't do the calculation every time as required by regs, they take an educated guess.
 
It cost me 2K to get my CORGI registration which is a safety organisation Council Of Registered Gas Installers that not only protects the consumer from dodgy installers but the neighbors and their children from the same and hopefully D.I.Yers who think gas is not a danger. Look back and ask why was a landlords gas safety certificate made a LEGAL requirement before letting a property?? Get real get it installed correctly there is a lot more to putting a boiler in than getting the 5 pipes in the right order.!!!!!!!!! It may save you a jail term in the long run....???
 
Getting a little upset? So you are too tight to pay out money for the regs? you want them for free?

I have the current gas safety regs and British standards to hand and refer to them almost on a daily basis. As I am also corgi reg'd I have a back up technical line and relevant info needed. I will never pass on information that could be potentially dangerous in the hands of someone who is clearly incompetent and untrained. You say you have fitted 3 boilers previously, well that isn't difficult is it you hang it on a wall and run pipes to it. How do you know the installation is fitted correctly/safely? you have no access to the current regs.;

I frequent these pages and provide FREE advice to people when they need it, I have never/will never provide advice that could kill them.

No most guys here are not looking for business, I believe this time of year work is plenty.

Any way good luck and please don't move anywhere near me.
 
A little history.

Boiler pilot light went out and wouldn't re-light. Plumber called by my partner, he told her it was condemnded and he wouldn't relight it. He'd fit a new one for us though. £2,000. Or £2700 if we wanted it in the loft. Can't do anything for 3 weeks though luv.

So we rang around for prices.

Hi, our boiler has failed. We're freezing. Can you help?

13x answerphone messages not returned.
6x redirections to mobiles which were ignored / hung up / told us "too busy call back"
3x Too busy, call back in (random number of weeks).
5x not interested, too much work on.
3x not interested, too much work on, but give this guy a call.
7x In the loft? (Follow random reasons why it would be better somewhere else, all of which were disputed by the others - conslusion - they can't be bothered).

There were 3 who could do what we wanted, but couldn;t give a time and if they could, it wouldn't be for three weeks.

Only 2 people I spoke to had a basic grasp of customer service, the rest were geezers.
So - I made time to do it myself. Because if recent experience is anything to go by, plumbers are not as professional as they like to make out.

-------------------
Since I've been looking for comissioning, I've had more success finding people. Many have no problem with this. Using word of mouth, I have now found three plumbers who are available and more than prepared to do the work. All Corgi registered with impeccable references. Two have been out and have commended my work and are happy to commission it. In fact, both said go ahead and make the gas pipe and I'll just test it for you - it'll be quicker that way.

The regs which you so hotly dispute - I called Vaillant and they stated that they do not pertain so much to fire regs, but more to do with the DPM. The turbomax plus is one of the few boiler that can be mounted on combustible materials. (Mine is on a steel plate). They answered it in five minutes. ALL of the plumbers I spoke to since posting here were asked the same question as above. NOT ONE gave a positive response - Can't remember, have to look it up / ask a mate / call the manufacturer etc. Interesting, don't you think?

For every diy-er a tradesman hears of making a mistake, there are 50 others that do a good job. That's what sites like this are about.

For every trademan that does a good job, there is a proportion of cowboys.

Point is, Tradesmen are not infallible, DIY-ers are not infallible. This perspective that we mere mortals are beyond comprehending gas is truly arrogant. When I was studying engineering we dealt with piping for liquid nitrogen - and you think domestic gas is dangerous? Please.

Further, gas can kill you by asphyxiation or combustion, which requires secondary influence. Electricity will kill you, straight away - the first time - if not installed correctly. Yet many plumbers are happy to play with that when they're not qualified to do so.
 
As I said before, good luck. By the way A plumber is not a heating engineer, and a heating engineer is not a plumber!
 
Well I never !!
I'll go to the foot of my stairs and blow my tin case up ;)
 

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