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EICR - C2 - circuits 1 and 2 low insulation resistance reading

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by dpm_dpmartin, 12 May 2021.

  1. SimonH2

    SimonH2

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    Just one thing that's not been mentioned yet ...
    Apart from ">200", ">1000", or whatever the limit for the meter is, the actual reading should be recorded on the EICR. At the point of having the EICR done, it makes little difference whether it's 89MΩ or 890MΩ. Both are high enough not to be of a concern, though with 89 I'd be thinking about any reasons for it - my last one, I couldn't get behind a freezer to unplug it and it didn't do the IR values any good :(.
    But next time, you are supposed to provide the inspector with a copy of the last EICR. I expect some charlatans will simply copy the results from the old one and charge for tests not done, but to an honest inspector it provides a means of seeing if there's been a deterioration.
    So lets say that last time a circuit tested at 89MΩ (which is a little on the low side in the absence of damp, or an appliance you can't unplug), but now tests at (say) 37MΩ - then that should be a prompt to consider that something has changed for the worse. But if it still tests at 80-something MΩ then that's just within normal variances. On my flat I have a job on my list to replace an outside light that's got a little damp in it and creating a lowish IR - still OK, but a significant drop from the previous EICR.

    The fact than an inspector would write <1000 in the IR column suggests to me that he is not competent to be doing such testing. He certainly doesn't understand the basics of filling out the form, and he definitely doesn't understand the reason we record the values in the first place. Otherwise, why bother recording numbers and just have a "go-nogo" meter and a tick box :rolleyes:
     
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  3. dpm_dpmartin

    dpm_dpmartin

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    That's useful additional information, thanks, it makes so much more [common] sense when someone just explains these things to you. The new Electrician is now confirmed, after a second call, although he will definitely not get to it this week. So any updates from me, which I will do, will be a little further down the line.
     
  4. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Indeed.

    As has ben discussed at some length, it is possible that he 'understands' more than one would think from what he has written on the form, since one of his early written responses to the OP was "Anything less than the 1 meg is a fail so if it says less than thats cos it is" - which is not far from the truth (I think most would probably say that that statement was correct for a 'whole installation' measurement, but that one would want to see at least 2 MΩ for an individual final circuit).

    Whatever, for a host of reasons, I think we are agreed that the OP is well off without this guy's continuing services!

    Kind Regards, John
     
  5. dpm_dpmartin

    dpm_dpmartin

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    The new Electrician made contact with the Tenant yesterday, so I feel comfortable he is, at the very least, on the ball. I now pin all my hopes on there not being low IR at all... and, if there is, some sensible route towards remediation.
     
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  6. dpm_dpmartin

    dpm_dpmartin

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    I'm going to quote (re-write) a text message that I've just received from the second Electrician...

    "Hi [me!], Iv neen to [Tenant's] property [address] I'll give you a ring tomorrow and have a chat about it mate. Its passed just. Cheers"

    Obviously there may be things to discuss and things he might well strongly recommend I do... but it looks like it's not a £3,500 re-wire. I am feeling as light as a feather, even though I am nervous about that "just". :eek:
     
  7. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Given where you 'were', I would think that you probably ought to put that nervousness 'on hold'. Apart from anything else, "just passed" means "passed" (just as is driving at 29.99 mph in a 30 mph zone legal). More to the point, if he has found some things which 'might benefit from attention' (and you decide to 'attend to them'), that is presumably peanuts in compared with the nonsense you were previously confronted with!

    I think you probably just need to 'open a bottle' (if you haven't already!) :)

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  8. dpm_dpmartin

    dpm_dpmartin

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    I guess I am nervous because I don't yet have the new EICR in my clammy hands... but, yeah, rather than feeling like a lemming heading towards a cliff I actually feel more like a kid on Christmas Eve. Thanks to everyone here who gave me the confidence and insight to push back on this... if you folks hadn't given me the ammunition I would've probably paid-up with misgivings... possibly (likely) lost a Tenant (in that I would have made someone homeless because he mandated it)... and then I would have also gone through the hassle of an added kitchen refurbishment, plastering, decorating etc..

    It hasn't stopped me pondering whether I attempt to take the first Electrician to task in any way... and how. If I do get that EICR with SATISFACTORY on it I should definitely ask him for my fee back - his idea, not mine. It is not my fight, but I have a moral obligation vibe tickling the back of my head (my SpideySense is tingling).... I'm wondering if I was the first, or if I'll be the last...

    I'll wait until I get the EICR... and if it's very interesting then I'll share bits.
     
  9. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    With good reason, I would say!
    Quite apart from your money (which I would say, certainly 'morally', you deserve to get back), it would obviously be good to think that 'something could be done about' the clearly incompetent (if not worse) clown. However, whether you would stand any chance of actually 'achieving anything', or could even be bothered to try, is perhaps a different matter.
    Please do. We'd obviously be interested to see the results of the IR measurements, and it would also be interesting to know more about the "just passed" issues (maybe the same?).

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  11. securespark

    securespark

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    I'm convinced the low IR readings would be down to connected loads.

    It is often difficult and sometimes impossible to disconnect all loads.

    I went to a customer that several previous electricians went to in order to investigate low IR.

    To me, the first thing was to take any appliances or connected loads out of the equation.

    So I went around the property unplugging, switching off and disconnecting any loads.

    I had a feeling there were sockets I was missing so I asked the customer if there were any more.

    She was adamant there weren't any more, but eventually I found some behind furniture with loads attached that she had forgotten about.

    So it's possible there are still loads attached.

    Then there's the method of testing: putting L and N together against earth is advisable if you do a global IR.

    So it all depends on exactly what he did when IR testing.
     
  12. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Maybe, IF there were any truly low IRs - don't forget that the "low" ones were recorded as <1,000 MΩ !!

    Kind Regards, John
     
  13. securespark

    securespark

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    Well, according to Spark Mk 2, they were low-ish.

    So maybe there is no IF....
     
  14. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Maybe not. You are, I presume, assuming that the new electrician's "just passed" comment related to low-ish IRs. I suppose you're probably right, but it's not impossible that it related to something different.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  15. AndyPRK

    AndyPRK

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    I haven’t read this all however.
    By saying multstranded wiring (on say lighting and socket circuits), he maybe trying to indicate the wiring was installed in 19 60s. To give an indicator of age.

    should the cooker circuit need replacing in the future, it could be done in surface trunking, to avoid ppl having to move out.

    regarding socket circuits. It would need investigation. Maybe something cleaver could be done.
     
  16. winston1

    winston1

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    So what were the actual figures?
     
  17. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    You, like the rest of us, have to be patient ...
     
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