Engineer Fitted new FFD - Should it be leak tested?

J

JimB

Hello

I'm concerned about some work I had done today by a Gas Safety Registered firm.

I called when my gas range oven would not burn properly. We paid £75+VAT to have someone call and inspect the range and diagnose the faults on the understanding that the cash paid for the labour on any subsequent repair and this has been recorded on the worksheet.

A new FFD was ordered - this took three weeks to arrive despite assurances it would be only three working days. We chose this company on that lead time.

After chasing this up for three weeks I finally got a call yesterday telling me the part was in stock and could be fitted today at a cost of £160. I asked for a breakdown and was told that was the price of the FFD.

When the engineer arrived he put his clipboard in front of me and I saw that the cost price of the part was £53. Some markup! I must be in the wrong business.

Anyway, the part was replaced in 10 minutes and the range was slid back into place.

I asked whether the system needed leak testing. "No" he said. "It has rubber seals." I asked again, "I am concerned that you are not leak testing this, not checking the gas pressure and that you didn't check beforehand." He said "I have never had a leak before and there is definitely no need to test it. I will go to my van and get my testing gear if that is what you want, but I never test these jobs." I told him that he should test it if it was necessary. He said it was not.

My understanding of having a competent engineer touching your gas devices was that they should make sure before they leave the job that everything is safe.

Should I be concerned and call them up to come and test this? Surely he is assuming that the device has no manufacturing defects? This assumption may be incorrect.

Also, is £100 mark up on a FFD the industry standard? 167% mark up? I expect to be challenged on the pricing but I would rather I was charged for the appropriate labour rather than see this size of mark up.

I would appreciate some advice on how to handle the testing question. Thanks very much for reading this far!

Jim
 
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why didnt you take up his offer of him testing it there and then....?!
 
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Hello

I'm concerned about some work I had done today by a Gas Safety Registered firm.

I called when my gas range oven would not burn properly. We paid £75+VAT to have someone call and inspect the range and diagnose the faults on the understanding that the cash paid for the labour on any subsequent repair and this has been recorded on the worksheet.

A new FFD was ordered - this took three weeks to arrive despite assurances it would be only three working days. We chose this company on that lead time.

After chasing this up for three weeks I finally got a call yesterday telling me the part was in stock and could be fitted today at a cost of £160. I asked for a breakdown and was told that was the price of the FFD.

When the engineer arrived he put his clipboard in front of me and I saw that the cost price of the part was £53. Some markup! I must be in the wrong business.

Anyway, the part was replaced in 10 minutes and the range was slid back into place.

I asked whether the system needed leak testing. "No" he said. "It has rubber seals." I asked again, "I am concerned that you are not leak testing this, not checking the gas pressure and that you didn't check beforehand." He said "I have never had a leak before and there is definitely no need to test it. I will go to my van and get my testing gear if that is what you want, but I never test these jobs." I told him that he should test it if it was necessary. He said it was not.

My understanding of having a competent engineer touching your gas devices was that they should make sure before they leave the job that everything is safe.

Should I be concerned and call them up to come and test this? Surely he is assuming that the device has no manufacturing defects? This assumption may be incorrect.

Also, is £100 mark up on a FFD the industry standard? 167% mark up? I expect to be challenged on the pricing but I would rather I was charged for the appropriate labour rather than see this size of mark up.

I would appreciate some advice on how to handle the testing question. Thanks very much for reading this far!

Jim
You cant test an fsd by doing a pressure test, it is out of range of the test, the only leak test you need to do is with liquid by simply turning on the oven and testing the joints.
 
J

JimB

You cant test an fsd by doing a pressure test, it is out of range of the test, the only leak test you need to do is with liquid by simply turning on the oven and testing the joints.

Can you explain what you mean by "out of range of the test?"
 
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J

JimB

why didnt you take up his offer of him testing it there and then....?!

Whether I took him up on his "offer" is irrelevant to my question.

Can you offer any explanation on why he wouldn't test it? I am trying to understand whether testing is needed or not? He said it wasn't. I don't understand why, so that's what I want to know. He may be right. He may be wrong.

If it is not needed then what special skills does his Gas Safe certification give him? Is his assertion that is has rubber seals and doesn't need testing correct?

[/i]
 
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The ffd is past the oven tap so cannot be tested as it is always partially open only way of testing it is leak detector fluid . With the oven lit but this is not always possible due to location of some ffd`s
The special skill he has is probably called experience
 
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why didnt you take up his offer of him testing it there and then....?!

Whether I took him up on his "offer" is irrelevant to my question.

Can you offer any explanation on why he wouldn't test it? I am trying to understand whether testing is needed or not? He said it wasn't. I don't understand why, so that's what I want to know. He may be right. He may be wrong.

If it is not needed then what special skills does his Gas Safe certification give him? Is his assertion that is has rubber seals and doesn't need testing correct?

so your not bothered if its safe or not then, just if it needed testing.

odd way of looking at things.
 
J

JimB

why didnt you take up his offer of him testing it there and then....?!

Whether I took him up on his "offer" is irrelevant to my question.

Can you offer any explanation on why he wouldn't test it? I am trying to understand whether testing is needed or not? He said it wasn't. I don't understand why, so that's what I want to know. He may be right. He may be wrong.

If it is not needed then what special skills does his Gas Safe certification give him? Is his assertion that is has rubber seals and doesn't need testing correct?

so your not bothered if its safe or not then, just if it needed testing.

odd way of looking at things.

How you can make that leap in logic is amazing. Are you some kid of mind reader?

If you have nothing to contribute why do you waste your time typing this kind of comment.

I am going to ignore your nonsense.
 
J

JimB

The ffd is past the oven tap so cannot be tested as it is always partially open only way of testing it is leak detector fluid . With the oven lit but this is not always possible due to location of some ffd`s
The special skill he has is probably called experience

He did not use leak detector fluid.

Thanks for your explanation.

Does his experience "I've never had a leak in the past" mean that he will never have a leak in the future? Does it mean that he's rolling the dice when he fits a gas appliance part and so far he's won?

When I test plumbing installations I connect a device that checks that there are no leaks in the system. Would that not have worked?

I sense a certain defensiveness on this board and others when asking questions relating to gas installations...
 
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Explain to me how you can pressure test for a leak when one side is open all the time.
Not defensive just how it is
 
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Does his experience "I've never had a leak in the past" mean that he will never have a leak in the future?

Obviously not.

Does it mean that he's rolling the dice when he fits a gas appliance part and so far he's won?
Yes,unfortunately:(

99% of the time if you have room to fit an FSD there is room to carry out a leak test with leak detection fluid.

There`s no excuse for him not carrying out this test,it`s easy and quick.

I can`t remember whether I`ve ever fitted an FSD with a rubber seal,usually they don`t have one(as they are often fitted close to the burner and I supose heat could become an issue) but a test should still be carried out.

As to the price,that does seem rather excessive,even if you were to add VAT and a 25% mark up.

You could always try speaking to the boss of the firm and have someone come back to test the connection.make sure they don`t charge you for it.
 
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Yes he should have tested both sides of the fsd with leak detection fluid.....Period Its usually bundy tubing with flared ends and sometimes you have to tighten it quite hard to get it leak free, never ever seen rubber seals on an fsd.

Mark up on fsd is a rip off in my opinion, or overpriced to put it mildly (post the make and model of your cooker) if your unhappy with situation you have gas safe and trading standards as a last call.

Wsts and myself both work for manufactures of cookers ! dont we "Pelchy !"
 
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You cant test an fsd by doing a pressure test, it is out of range of the test, the only leak test you need to do is with liquid by simply turning on the oven and testing the joints.

Can you explain what you mean by "out of range of the test?"

Yes the connections on the fsd can only be tested when gas is passing through it to the oven burner so you have to light the oven and then test the inlet to the fsd and the outlet....a gas tightness test would not show a leak on an fsd thats what he meant by out of range .....suprised at you WSTS :LOL:
 

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