Estimate for replacement of Servowarm Supreme boiler

[jdey]

I live in Wimbledon and am thinking a reasonable estimate for the replacement of my boiler would be:-

1. Potterton Condensing Boiler £700
2. Labour cost of installation £400
2. Powerflush £400
3. Creation of new flue in external wall £200
4. Bricking up of old flue £50
5. Running pipework from new Boiler to old Boiler positions £100
6. Boxing in the new Boiler and the pipework £150
7. Running piping from the new Condensing boiler to a drain £100

Approximately £2100

One person that I rang up mentioned that I'd have to replace all of the valves on each radiator with TRVs and another said that Servowarm systems are a heap of junk and I'd be better off replacing everything at a cost of £5000 (did admit they didn't take on small jobs, however).

Could I have comments on the accuracy of my estimate, the necessity of replacing the valves on the radiators, and the comment about the general state of Servowarm systems.

From what I understand most Servowarm systems were installed in the 1970s, although the system doesn't kettle as much as in my previous house, and there isn't extensive corrosion, which would indicate to me a more recent system. Regarding the pipework, most of it's hidden and some of the radiators seem to be soldered directly in to the pipework rather than having connections.

Could somebody also answer my question as to whether there's any means of reducing/preventing the leak from what I'm guessing is the pump, whilst I await the replacement of the boiler?

 

[EliteHeat]

If you don't already have TRVs then, yes, he is quite right. Also, if you don't have a factory lagged cylinder then that would need to be replaced too.

And I have no idea why I repeated everything you said!

 

[jdey]

Hi there,

The hot water system is run off a seperate boiler which is one of those instant heat jobbies.

Are TRVs required by the building regs or is this just a desirable? In my case, that would add a few hours to the costs, as some of the radiators appear to be soldered directly in to the pipework. I'm guessing another £200 for that work?

Cheers,
J

 

[ChrisR]

Bld regs. And if they are "soldered in" (though I can't imagine it), change the rest as they're like to leak during powerflushing anyway.

Some Servowarm systems are dire - plated steel pipe which nobody should touch unless they're taking it out!

Item 5 - can't tell.

+ you might need a new gas pipe.
Are you sure you want 2 boilers?
Get 3 quotes!!

 

[Agile]

Your prices are fine.

However as the rads are old they will probably not stand pressurising.

It also sounds as if they may have non standard connections onto the rads.

Servowarm heating systems were designed down to a price! A low one!

Tony

 

[jdey]

Sounds like things are tilting towards a complete replacement.
Would the quote of £5000 for a new system be reasonable, or is it likely to mount up from there?

Is there any way of telling how old a radiator is or indeed how old the Servowarm Supreme is. It's got a GC number on it.

 

[ChrisR]

Depends how big, and other things.
CH folk usually don't get involved in boxing things in, by the way.
Plenty of old systems DO have modern boilers put on them, a few have a problem or two.
Get 3 quotes!

 

[jdey]

I understand that I'll have to insist on very fine detail with the quote.

Is there any means that a plumber can test a system to see if it can withstand a certain pressure or not? Obviously the difference between a new boiler and a new central heating system is great enough to be concerned about a particular verdict. I'm guessing I'll have to have more than 3 quotes to get a consistent picture here.

 

[jdey]

Guy's confirmed that he thinks I need a whole new central heating system. Says that he can do it for a fixed price of £5000. However, a few things bother me with this:-

1. He wants to remove the relatively new instant hot water boiler which is in the bathroom and replace it with a new combi boiler. I'm very happy having seperate hot water and heating boilers as if something goes wrong it means I only lose 1 service. Also, he'd then have to run extra pipes to connect up to the heating system which will mean a re-tiling job in the bathroom.

2. He started talking about taking up my brand new kitchen floor. I pointed out that I'd prefer it if he just removed the old pipes and ran the new pipes along the same route so as to avoid disruption.

3. His quote only covers ripping out the old system and installing a new one. Being cynical, this could mean that he leaves my entire house looking like a bomb site with me having a substantial extra cost to employ carpenters, carpet fitters etc. I'd prefer a quote which covers everything.

4. I'm still not sure that my system is as old as is alleged. A lot of people are saying it's a 1970s system, but the date of manufacture on the bracket below the burner says 27/10/94.

Surely, there must be a cheaper option then all of this. I've got water dripping from the boiler from a metal box which is to the left hand side of the burner. Speaking to an ex-plumber colleague of mine he's suggested it may be the heat exchanger that's leaking. Not sure exactly what the metal box contains. It could be a pump but it's pretty quiet for one. It's a Servowarm Supreme. Any old hands remember what this could be? Is it possible to still get parts for this? It could be that it's a 1970s system but the burner/heat exchanger was replaced as recently as 1994.

The issue here is that I'd resolved to replace my boiler with a more modern one, but I didn't realise I'd have to replace the whole system and rebuild half my house.

 

[ChrisR]

What reason for ripping out the old pipes? Unless they're the steel ones I certainly wouldn't. New radiators aren't thousands, how many do you have?

Servowarm have/had their own boilers - asked them for a quote to fix it?
Hmm, Wimbledon - the guy who wants to rip it out isn't called Les is he?

Plumbers don't often do anything other than make big holes and put pipes through them. Boxing in would be rare. If you employ a builder, he'll arrange all the trades for you - but you'd increase your estimate hugely.
Get BG to quote, and ask all your friends for a contact, and go from there.

 

[jdey]

"What reason for ripping out the old pipes? Unless they're the steel ones I certainly wouldn't."
He's not the 1st to say this, but doing some research it seems that combi boilers operate at 3 times the pressure of the older boilers like mine. That said, most old houses seem to have ancient systems like mine, so I'm still skeptical that there's not an alternative to the combi boiler.

"New radiators aren't thousands, how many do you have?"
I've got 7 radiators

"Servowarm have/had their own boilers - asked them for a quote to fix it? "
Not yet. I thought about them but I got a letter from them last year telling me that my boiler had passed it's serviceability date. It seems that they're not exactly mainstream anymore.

"Hmm, Wimbledon - the guy who wants to rip it out isn't called Les is he? "
No, 1st guy was called Laurence Hanways from a company called BoilerAid. I've got 3 more quoters to come yet.

"Plumbers don't often do anything other than make big holes and put pipes through them. Boxing in would be rare. If you employ a builder, he'll arrange all the trades for you - but you'd increase your estimate hugely."
Yeh, I know that but I'm worried that if I paid a fixed price there's no incentive for the guy to not just rip up all my floorboards, tear down my walls, shove in the new system and present the cheque. If I employ a building services company and get a complete quote, then I'll have less to worry about, perhaps.

 

[ChrisR]

You don't have to have a combi boiler.
Some boilers, combis and conventional, will work with the same header tank (pressure) you have now (if its in the loft). That's of the order of half a bar(5m).
Pressurised heating systems run at 1-2 bar, abs max 3 bar.
Any plumber can easily pressure test at anything up to 50 bar (I'd suggest 4!) and a leak will show quickly. Wouldn't worry about leaks - if you have a rusty rad it needs to go anyway.
To replace 7 average rads (yours might not be!)should be under a grand. Some old rads are longer than we'd use now though.

See if a magnet sticks to your pipes!

 

[jdey]

Thanks Chris,

Does this mean that Condensing boilers can work with open vent systems? Do you know which Worcester/Bosch or Vaillant models would work with such a system?

Cheers,
James

 

[jdey]

I've found 1 model which looks suitable - Vaillant Ecomax Pro. There are 2 types - 18E (5-18.6Kw) & 28E (5-28Kw). Bearing in mind I live in a 3-bed Victorian with 7 radiators, which type is recommended?

 

[Prof.plumb]

Let me tell just try to clarify what are you trying to achieve?
Is the boiler broken?
Is the system not working? What is the situation?