EU pension hypocracy

[david and julie]

I was reading an article earlier about conditions of employment for EU staff and my attention was drawn to their pensions. Staff pay 9.25% of salary towards their pension which only covers 1/3rd of the actuarial cost. For this they receive 2% of final salary for each year worked upto 70% or 35 years service. They can retire anytime after 50 years of age. So if you started working for them at say 20, by 50 you would have 30 years in and get 60% of your final salary, index linked. By contrast,as an example, an NHS employee would have to work 40 years for a maximum pension of 50% again final salary and index linked, but currently under review downwards to reduce costs.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/reform/2002/summary_chapter6_en.html#6_2_2
However the real hypocracy comes when you start talking about the rest of us, who they say must work longer!

The European Union is to issue a stark warning to Britons that they should be prepared to forget early retirement and work for longer.

This link is a little old, I can't find a later one but things haven't changed. This is why the Gov is talking about us working till 70 because they were told we must by the EU.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2851173.stm

Just remember all this when you are told the EU is good for you.

 

[WoodYouLike]

However the real hypocracy comes when you start talking about the rest of us, who they say must work longer!

The European Union is to issue a stark warning to Britons that they should be prepared to forget early retirement and work for longer.

This link is a little old, I can't find a later one but things haven't changed. This is why the Gov is talking about us working till 70 because they were told we must by the EU.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2851173.stm

Just remember all this when you are told the EU is good for you.

Sorry, but I can't see where you're coming from.

The report criticises the UK state pension system's funding.

This is couched in rather diplomatic terms: "adequacy has developed into a major challenge", but the meaning is explicit.

(Spending patterns
In 2000 the UK spent 5.5% of GDP on state pensions as against an EU-15 average of 10.4%.
Joint report by the Commission and the Council on Adequate and sustainable pensions)

Public pension expenditure on pensions was 5.5% of GDP in 2000 - the lowest in the EU - and is expected to fall to 4.4% by 2050.

The report does acknowledge measures to address inadequate incomes by the government through measures such as the Pension Credit, to be introduced in October.

But it also points out that pensioner incomes in the UK have fallen well below average earnings.

This is the petty state of UK State pension, regulated by the U.K. Much, much lower than in the rest of Europe. Can't see the effect or reason for your statement concerning that the EU tells us what's good for us. Cause they are right!

 

[Freddie]

The EU is right on pensions???? OK is that why the French and Germans have been trying to get out of their commitments on welfare and pensions because their economies cant afford it

The French president argued his case and said thats one reason why Britain cant have their rebate any more which is what started my EU thread----dont you read any of these things???????????

 

[WoodYouLike]

Sorry Freddie, but..

My reply was to the posting of David & Julie and the quote they made (mine was from the same article).
You can have your own EU thread and opinion, of course. That doesn't mean that I don't read your EU thread or don't agree with your opinion, but I think D&J left out important bits of the article and were very hasty to blame EU for UK employees having to work longer.

 

[david and julie]

By hypocracy I mean they are tring to make us work longer whilst allowing their own staff to retire very early. More so when you consider they are only covering a third of the cost in contributions. The rest of the money is made up by the money they take from Gov's like ours. The very people they are calling.

Do you know anybody at all who could get a 70% of salary final pension which is index linked? Like I said in the NHS, which is recognised as one of our best, You have to work 40 years for 50%, they only have to work 25 years or 15 years less, for the same. Don't you see that as double standards and hypocracy?

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie, you are correct, some in the French and German Governments have advocated reducing pension rights due to the huge burden they are increasingly putting on national economies, but this is NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS do this, the EU is actually criticising them for this.

The EU wanted to introduce legislation that prevent national governemtns from reducing pensions in this way, but the Leaders of the various member states blocked the legislation.

This is the point I have tried to make before. The EU is a long way from perfect, but often is the case that national governments use the EU as an excuse for bad decisions. They do something nasty or badly..Oh lets blame the EU, and the trouble is the majority accept it, it isn't simply an English or British thing in this respect, it occurs all over the EU member states.

But lets not get on to the wider issues, this thread is about pensions, the EU has it about right, but the British Gov is full of bull and is trying to rob us all.

 

[Big_Spark]

By hypocracy I mean they are tring to make us work longer whilst allowing their own staff to retire very early. More so when you consider they are only covering a third of the cost in contributions. The rest of the money is made up by the money they take from Gov's like ours. The very people they are calling.

Do you know anybody at all who could get a 70% of salary final pension which is index linked? Like I said in the NHS, which is recognised as one of our best, You have to work 40 years for 50%, they only have to work 25 years or 15 years less, for the same. Don't you see that as double standards and hypocracy?

IT IS NOT THE EU DOING THIS, IT OUR OUR POXY GOVERNMENT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. THEY TAKE OUR MONEY, PROMISE A PENSION, THEN GIVE US BUGGER ALL BACK, THIS IS THE DOMAIN OF NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS, NOT THE EU. THE PENSION YOU QUOTE IS FOR THE STAFF EMPLOYED BY THE EU, NOT BY NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Do you know anybody at all who could get a 70% of salary final pension which is index linked?

Yes I do (know someone) me. (Well I would have if I stayed in Ned, where my state-pension and company pension would have resulted in 70% of final salary at the age of 65, but I took the personal decision to come here to enjoy the joys of free enterprise

 

[WoodYouLike]

Oh and did I mention that those company pension plans are complusary (for companies to have them in place). Mine was premium free: company paid it for me.

Why did I ever leave

 

[david and julie]

IT IS NOT THE EU DOING THIS, IT OUR OUR POXY GOVERNMENT FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. THEY TAKE OUR MONEY, PROMISE A PENSION, THEN GIVE US b*****r ALL BACK, THIS IS THE DOMAIN OF NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS, NOT THE EU. THE PENSION YOU QUOTE IS FOR THE STAFF EMPLOYED BY THE EU, NOT BY NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS.

I am only saying the EU are are hypocritical by letting their own staff go early whilst wanting others to work longer. I don't see why you are bringing our pensions into it, that is a seperate area.

Why are you shouting when you know it is considered rude?

 

[WoodYouLike]

I am only saying the EU are are hypocritical by letting their own staff go early whilst wanting others to work longer. I don't see why you are bringing our pensions into it, that is a seperate area.

Beg to differ: you quoted two completely different articles and tried to combine them. That's not possible without other referances.

 

[david and julie]

Do you know anybody at all who could get a 70% of salary final pension which is index linked?

Yes I do (know someone) me. (Well I would have if I stayed in Ned, where my state-pension and company pension would have resulted in 70% of final salary at the age of 65, but I took the personal decision to come here to enjoy the joys of free enterprise

Whats Ned?

You are not comparing like with like here, you clearly say your state and company pension combined would give you 70%. The EU staff are getting this just from their job and will get their state pension on top of it. So I will rephrase my question, do you know anyone who gets 70% final salary just from their employer excluding any other pensions?

You are also not taking into account the time worked either. They would only have to work for 35 years to get 70% which if starting at 20 means they are only 55. So they are getting it 10 years before you, so it is costing much more.

The very fact that this scheme is subsidised to the tune of 2/3 of the cost proves it is unviable which is probably why our Gov doesn't do it too.

 

[david and julie]

I am only saying the EU are are hypocritical by letting their own staff go early whilst wanting others to work longer. I don't see why you are bringing our pensions into it, that is a seperate area.

Beg to differ: you quoted two completely different articles and tried to combine them. That's not possible without other referances.

So what do suggest I do instead of showing 2 different articles to make my point? Where have I tried to combine them? they are both there for reference so I don't follow what you mean.

 

[WoodYouLike]

Why don't you read the second article you quoted again, but then in it's whole, not just the part you don't like.
Then perhaps you see what I mean.

p.s. Ned = Nederland

 

[Freddie]

OK state pensions come from the state----our tax's

EU pensions come from the EU----our tax's