Extractor fan and shaver socket in bathroom

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Hi,

Can someone please tell me the best way to wire a pullcord extractor fan (not to turn on with the light switch) and a shaver socket in a bathroom. The lighting circuit or the ring main? :confused:

The upstairs main ring is protected by an RCD, but the upstairs lighting ring isn't.

I know FWL says that you shouldn't run supplies in a bathroom from a ring main even if it is via a fused spur, but is preferable to run them from a lighting circuit with no RCD, or is there anything else I can do?

Cheers in advance
 
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They can both come off the lighting circuit. The fan itself will be outside the bathroom, attached by ducting and switched by the pullcord. The shaver socket (complying with BS EN 60742, of course - that is, a proper, bathroom shaver socket) is isolated from the main supply (and earth) via its transformer. Sorted.
 
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dingbat said:
They can both come off the lighting circuit. The fan itself will be outside the bathroom, attached by ducting
Err.... how do you know that?

jgriggs - if your fan needs an RCD, i.e. it's not SELV and it's in Zone 1, then you can use an RCD spur off the lighting circuit.
 
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Cheers guys.

The fan is like this one (but with a pullcord attached to it for neatness)
p1692686_x.jpg


It's not a SELV and will be IP44 mounted in zone 2. Does that need to be on an RCD?

Ban-all-sheds said:
if your fan needs an RCD, i.e. it's not SELV and it's in Zone 1, then you can use an RCD spur off the lighting circuit.
How do you get an RCD spur of a lighting circuit without an RCD?

The shaver socket does comply with BS EN 60742, so does that mean there is no need at all to have it protected by an RCD?

Also does either the shaver socket or the fan need a seperate isolator such as a FCU?
 
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jgriggs said:
It's not a SELV and will be IP44 mounted in zone 2. Does that need to be on an RCD?
No, only if it's in Zone 1.

Ban-all-sheds said:
if your fan needs an RCD, i.e. it's not SELV and it's in Zone 1, then you can use an RCD spur off the lighting circuit.
How do you get an RCD spur of a lighting circuit without an RCD?
By using an FCU with a built in RCD.

The shaver socket does comply with BS EN 60742, so does that mean there is no need at all to have it protected by an RCD?
No need.

Also does either the shaver socket or the fan need a seperate isolator such as a FCU?
All appliances and outlets need a means of isolation. For the shaver socket it's up to you whether you're happy that if you need to isolate it you will do so by turning off the lights. The fan has a switch, so again it's up to you to decide if turning off the lighting circuit will be OK if you need to isolate the supply to it. However, the manufacturers instructions may say that you need to fuse it anyway, in which case you might as well use a switched FCU.
 
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Is it ok to mount a ceiling extractor fan above a bath with a shower if the height of the ceiling is >2.25m? I'm going to use a timer fan with a seperate pull cord mounted near the shower in zone 3.

I'll use a 3amp FCU (in the hall) which will go between the live and neutral from a ceiling rose (not RCD protected) and the live and neutral to the switch. In the switch a connector block will connect the neutral to the fan. The perm live will come from the common in the switch and finally the switched live will come from L1 in the switch. Any probs with that?

Bathroom_extractor_fan_cct.jpg


Also the fan is class II. Would I still need to earth the pullcord switch and FCU?
 
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Griggsy said:
Is it ok to mount a ceiling extractor fan above a bath with a shower if the height of the ceiling is >2.25m? I'm going to use a timer fan with a seperate pull cord mounted near the shower in zone 3.
Provided the fan is IPx4 rated, yes.

I'll use a 3amp FCU (in the hall) which will go between the live and neutral from a ceiling rose (not RCD protected) and the live and neutral to the switch. In the switch a connector block will connect the neutral to the fan. The perm live will come from the common in the switch and finally the switched live will come from L1 in the switch. Any probs with that?
Fine.

Also the fan is class II. Would I still need to earth the pullcord switch and FCU?
Yes, and connect the 3C+E cpc at the switch, and make it safe with choc-block at the other end - do not cut it back in case it is needed in the future.

PS - apologies for the delay - I've just found the emails reminding me to reply to this (don't ask... :oops: ). I know you'll have sorted yourself by now, but the info could be of use for people searching.
 
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I've just received the IPX4 fan but it says that it "must not be fitted above a bath". I was under the impression it was ok to fit IPx4 items in zone 2, any thoughts?

The instructions also say that "IEE Wiring regulations require that main voltage fans, wiring or their approved controls are installed in a position that is not accesible to a person using a bath or shower". Does that mean that a pullcord for a fan or shower switch cannot be within reach of the shower, or are they just talking about the actual switch casing?
 
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Griggsy said:
I've just received the IPX4 fan but it says that it "must not be fitted above a bath". I was under the impression it was ok to fit IPx4 items in zone 2, any thoughts?
Probably just covering themselves, and not wanting to get into discussions about Zones. If it's IPx4 it is OK for Zone 2. Why not contact them and ask?

The instructions also say that "IEE Wiring regulations require that main voltage fans, wiring or their approved controls are installed in a position that is not accesible to a person using a bath or shower". Does that mean that a pullcord for a fan or shower switch cannot be within reach of the shower, or are they just talking about the actual switch casing?
The actual casing, hence the existence of pullcord switches, so that the switch itself can be on the ceiling.
 
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Cheers, so a shower switch in Zone 3, can have its pullcord within reach of someone using the shower as long as the actual case of the switch can't be reached?
 
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ban-all-sheds said:
Griggsy said:
I've just received the IPX4 fan but it says that it "must not be fitted above a bath". I was under the impression it was ok to fit IPx4 items in zone 2, any thoughts?
Probably just covering themselves, and not wanting to get into discussions about Zones. If it's IPx4 it is OK for Zone 2. Why not contact them and ask?

I just did, and this is the great reply I got!

"Dear Mr Griggs,

In response to your email:

It would not be possible to adequately inform every user as to the current legislation for every product, therefore we ensure that all instructions carry common sense information regarding placement of product in areas of risk. The vast majority of products will be installed, hopefully, by qualified installers who will use their knowledge and experience in installation.

I hope this has been of help to you.

Regards,
Technical Manager
RDL"

Surely making instructions complying with current regulations wouldn't hurt :mad:
 
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i think the issue boils down to the fact that manufacturers don't want to get sued so they make the instructions very conservative
 

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