Frozen condensate pipes everywhere you go

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
3 Feb 2008
Messages
7,923
Reaction score
2,035
Location
Northamptonshire
Country
United Kingdom
With the best will in the world no-one can guarantee an external pipe will not freeze. Even if condensate is connected into a pipe internally that pipe can freeze after it exits the building if exposed to the elements.

Installers have taken all reasonable precautions to prevent frozen condensate drains, but whilst we have 110mm soil pipes freezing up then without either keeping the entire run to the point where it goes underground protected from frost then its difficult to do much more.
 
Sponsored Links

JohnD

Do you accept rounds of applause?
Joined
15 Nov 2005
Messages
81,392
Reaction score
5,465
Location
South
Country
Cook Islands
Its simple incompetence! and money making by plumbers and heating specialists. Must be a bonanza!

No, it's Simple Customers who don't understand the importance of having wet pipes inside the house, not outside, and who are therefore not willing to pay for it. the installers should take pains to explain this so that the customer knows any freezing due to ignoring this advice is the result of his own penny-pinching

Sometimes it is a bit more work to do it that way, which has to be included in the price. I am just a householder, but I understand how important it is, and included it in my specification of work. I didn't even let the installers quote for an installation with an outside pipe.

I decided on the position for my new boiler so that it would be conveniently placed for the gas and water pipes, the internal drain, and where the steam plume would not blow past any window or be an eyesore. Perhaps I am better informed than some.
 
Joined
27 Jun 2008
Messages
980
Reaction score
271
Location
Fife
Country
United Kingdom
In many cases, there is an element of incompetence by installers, however, as has been stated already, when a 4" soil stack is freezing solid and the manufacturers instructions have been followed to the letter, how can the installer be blamed? It's too easy to say all installers are cowboys.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2009
Messages
35,888
Reaction score
4,388
Location
Surrey
Country
United Kingdom
Hmm ??lets not lose sight that the condensate pipe is connected to the flue ?? & the only thing stopping co coming out is what ? water in a trap or a plastic ball ?? I attended one boiler install , & due to a set of circumstances , saw products of combustion coming out a sink waste ?? occured every morning when the boiler came on ??
 
Sponsored Links
Joined
22 Dec 2010
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Yorkshire
Country
United Kingdom
With the best will in the world no-one can guarantee an external pipe will not freeze. Even if condensate is connected into a pipe internally that pipe can freeze after it exits the building if exposed to the elements.

Installers have taken all reasonable precautions to prevent frozen condensate drains, but whilst we have 110mm soil pipes freezing up then without either keeping the entire run to the point where it goes underground protected from frost then its difficult to do much more.

Look at the sheer number of people complaining about this issue. The complaint specifically center around the Condensate pipe. And mostly because best practice is simply not followed by installer who hoodwink householders into believing that they are the qualified authority on the work, when in reality all they are doing is taking short cuts for future problems to occur. If they followed best practice or even the recommended guidelines in the B Regs and Governments assessed guidelines we wouldnt be in this mess!
 
Joined
22 Dec 2010
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Yorkshire
Country
United Kingdom
No, it's Simple Customers who don't understand the importance of having wet pipes inside the house, not outside, and who are therefore not willing to pay for it. the installers should take pains to explain this so that the customer knows any freezing due to ignoring this advice is the result of his own penny-pinching.

Not willing to pay for it? Who says? The option isnt even there, ive spent all afternoon arguing with the installer who says B Regs prevent him doing anything but plumb the small pipes outside. According to the regs and guidelines he couldve plumbed the condensate pipe to the Rainwater waste (which is 100mm wide!) and we wouldnt even need to discuss this. The fact that he is lying is galling. In fact the shorter run of pipe wouldve meant money saved!!!

Its just ludicrous that people who should be 'experts' cant be arsed to do the work correctly in the first place!
 
Joined
22 Dec 2010
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Yorkshire
Country
United Kingdom
In many cases, there is an element of incompetence by installers, however, as has been stated already, when a 4" soil stack is freezing solid and the manufacturers instructions have been followed to the letter, how can the installer be blamed? It's too easy to say all installers are cowboys.

The 100mm pipes that are freezing over underground are few far between. Nothin in comparison to the sheer volume of complaints people have for the Condensate pipes. Its a complete joke.
 
Joined
22 Dec 2010
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Yorkshire
Country
United Kingdom
Hmm ??lets not lose sight that the condensate pipe is connected to the flue ?? & the only thing stopping co coming out is what ? water in a trap or a plastic ball ?? I attended one boiler install , & due to a set of circumstances , saw products of combustion coming out a sink waste ?? occured every morning when the boiler came on ??

Why dont we read the quidelines? and the B Regs...Section H...paragraph 1.14! its says you can plumb the condensate pipe in soil waste pipe, rainwater waste pipe or the sink waste pipe on the proviso that certain restriction are met eg a trap and height etc.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2009
Messages
35,888
Reaction score
4,388
Location
Surrey
Country
United Kingdom
Hmm ??lets not lose sight that the condensate pipe is connected to the flue ?? & the only thing stopping co coming out is what ? water in a trap or a plastic ball ?? I attended one boiler install , & due to a set of circumstances , saw products of combustion coming out a sink waste ?? occured every morning when the boiler came on ??

Why dont we read the quidelines? and the B Regs...Section H...paragraph 1.14! its says you can plumb the condensate pipe in soil waste pipe, rainwater waste pipe or the sink waste pipe on the proviso that certain restriction are met eg a trap and height etc.


Be all that as it may ?? fact is the condensate is connected to the flue & is reliant on a water seal or a plastic float that under certain conditions dependant on the internal connection ?? to stop products of combustion entering the internal space in which it is terminated ?
 

JPC

Joined
10 Aug 2004
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
20
Location
Leicester
Country
United Kingdom
I have attended loads (8-10) 32 and 40mm waste pipes that are frozen up...all have had a small amout of water passing....ie a leaking tap or condense pipe connected to it.

this is true whether the condense pipe is connected inside or out...if the 32-40mm still goes outside.

So we can say that putting the 21.5 into 32-40mm pipework to prevent freezing is no longer true.

it had been fine for years, before we had this years low temperatures.

a lot of times certain wishes can't be accomodated within the layout of the house. if anyone thinks otherwise they aren't in this game.

the solution is to run it in 110mm from the point of exit !! lol
 
Joined
20 Nov 2009
Messages
35,888
Reaction score
4,388
Location
Surrey
Country
United Kingdom
Lets face it there is a certain amount some home owner's might be able to do ? if they had an out side tap , they would turn it off or insulate it in some way , logic might dictate ?? if there condensate is exposed than try some thing like self help !
Get out side & insulate it , use your duvet if u have to , Jesus it never cease's to amaze me at the number of use less people that are about to day , gripe moan , blame some one else ???? But atually get off there backside & do some thing No !! :)
 
Joined
2 Oct 2010
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
665
Country
United Kingdom
I have watched this thread with interest, and Im going to put my take on it.

As an RGI, I will ensure the condense pipe is installed to the MI's.

As RGI's we have to follow the MI's and many of my customers have explained that they wish not to pay extra to run the pipe internally when its an extra £50 -£100 on the cost of the install.

Personally, I cannot afford to lose out on jobs if the customer is happy that the condensing pipe is done to the correct standards -allbeit outside of the property.

I DO have a problem with people complaining that its now a problem due to the weather, and Im somewhat responsible for that.

When will people realise how cut-throat our industry has become with cc/ccc's and our decent trade is constantly undevalued.

Were not out to rip people off, we follow rules - and when them rules are mis-guided we seem to pick up the fall out.

Mr. W.
 
Joined
2 Oct 2010
Messages
3,625
Reaction score
665
Country
United Kingdom
In many cases, there is an element of incompetence by installers, however, as has been stated already, when a 4" soil stack is freezing solid and the manufacturers instructions have been followed to the letter, how can the installer be blamed? It's too easy to say all installers are cowboys.

The 100mm pipes that are freezing over underground are few far between. Nothin in comparison to the sheer volume of complaints people have for the Condensate pipes. Its a complete joke.

Can I respectfully suggest your a joker on this site.

Maybe I can simplify it for your limited itelligence.......

You drive on an urban road with a speed limit of 30. Your doing 20 and your penalised as it was icy. You may have to think about that one.

Mr. W.
 
Joined
22 Dec 2010
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Location
Glasgow
Country
United Kingdom
Hi

I understand that there are many great tradesmen out there, however the corgi registered person who installed my boiler 2 years ago, left 22mm pipe with no lagging - the pipe froze only once that year, however we didnt know this was the problem and had to pay a lump sum to BG and join their monthly scheme to avoid paying over £300 in one go.

I did not have the choice of paying extra to have the pipe run internally as I was never told about this option. It seems that when the law was introduced in Scotland regarding these new boilers, there were those who did not pay attention to the rules or not enough information was given? Even when we called the installer for any ideas when the boiler cut out on xmas eve, he said "sounds like a pressure problem" therefore we had to pay BG, only to find the BG defrosted the pipe with a hairdryer.

This year we were better armed having lagged the pipework but the pipe still froze and since then we have changed to 32mm pipe, increased the amont of lagging, added 45 degree elbows (he had 90) and in desperation therma wrap (yes we know it is meant for copper pipe but i am frustrated with it and was willing to try almost anything).

It has been really helpful reading this forum and unfortunately we have no nearby waste pipe to connect the condensate pipe to (which may be the reason why the installer never mentioned it - but since he didnt lag the pipe and left it sitting in the gutter, which not surprisingly froze with several inches of snow in it, at the time - I doubt it).

To add to the frustration Worchester recommend maintaining a temperature of 15 degrees - wel,l since our heating does not drop below 19 I can tell you that that doesnt work, not for us. The opposite in fact i.e. if the heating is not on, it is not producing the condensed water and so does not freeze (as much)! Besides this.. the whole point is to have a well insulated home therefore the heating will stay off and the room at 21 for some time but i am being told, with rising bills, to keep the heating on all the time - so much for energy saving then eh?

I am interested in trying the cable tape/wire tape. If anyone has tried this I would be grateful for their advice and thank you all for letting me rant...
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsored Links
Top