gfci receptical
- Thread starter parrro2
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Err - isn't your entire installation GFCI protected?
If not, I'd give it serious consideration - better to have full protection and never need it than the other way round......
If not, I'd give it serious consideration - better to have full protection and never need it than the other way round......
B
breezer
ban-all-the-sheds, Americans do things differently than we do so to ask the poster "isnt all your installation gfi protected?" is not necesarily a good idea, if you think about it our lights are usually NOT rcd protected are they?
no one else replied because it is in America, and they have different codes than we do, for all you and i know a #12 wire may be too small. and as most Americans do they post and go away never to be heard of again, which is a great shame really, we need an American electrician to join these forums
no one else replied because it is in America, and they have different codes than we do, for all you and i know a #12 wire may be too small. and as most Americans do they post and go away never to be heard of again, which is a great shame really, we need an American electrician to join these forums
Yes, they do things differently, and not always better (aluminium wiring, anybody 
).
But ye cannae change the laws of physics by moving to another country, and 110v is hardly less lethal than 230v (like pregnancy, you can't be "a bit" electrocuted ).
So if RCDs make sense here, then GFCIs make sense in the USA - just because their codes (or ours) don't require them (although increasingly they do) that doesn't mean they forbid them.
A #12 wire is almost 4mm (see http://www.metric.fsworld.co.uk/siwire_elect.htm), so should be ample for a 110v lighting circuit.
And you're right - there should be American professionals on this site to advise their fellows - I wonder if fear of liability keeps them away?
).But ye cannae change the laws of physics by moving to another country, and 110v is hardly less lethal than 230v (like pregnancy, you can't be "a bit" electrocuted
).So if RCDs make sense here, then GFCIs make sense in the USA - just because their codes (or ours) don't require them (although increasingly they do) that doesn't mean they forbid them.
A #12 wire is almost 4mm (see http://www.metric.fsworld.co.uk/siwire_elect.htm), so should be ample for a 110v lighting circuit.
And you're right - there should be American professionals on this site to advise their fellows - I wonder if fear of liability keeps them away?
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B
breezer
this is where the "big pond" comes into play. and why we shouldn't answer 99% of Ameican questions (for fear of getting it wrong)
yes In America they do have 110v and yes on building sites it is also 110v
but there is one difference
building sites it is 55v x 2 (55v to earth)
in America it is 110v to earth
but either way its not good to be on the wrong end of a live cable
yes In America they do have 110v and yes on building sites it is also 110v
but there is one difference
building sites it is 55v x 2 (55v to earth)
in America it is 110v to earth
but either way its not good to be on the wrong end of a live cable
Err - does less lethal mean non-lethal?
Has nobody in the USA ever been electrocuted by their domestic electricity supply?
Would you grab a 110v line in one hand and a good earth with the other?
Could not a 110v shock, even if non-fatal, cause painful burns? Or cause someone to fall off a ladder?
I'm sorry, Spark, but no - 110v is not non-lethal enough for you not to be able to benefit from the same safety devices as 230v
And anyway - isn't the 110v on building sites actually 55-0-55 i.e. 110v for the appliance, but only 55v to earth? i.e. "only" a 55v shock hazard?
Has nobody in the USA ever been electrocuted by their domestic electricity supply?
Would you grab a 110v line in one hand and a good earth with the other?
Could not a 110v shock, even if non-fatal, cause painful burns? Or cause someone to fall off a ladder?
I'm sorry, Spark, but no - 110v is not non-lethal enough for you not to be able to benefit from the same safety devices as 230v
And anyway - isn't the 110v on building sites actually 55-0-55 i.e. 110v for the appliance, but only 55v to earth? i.e. "only" a 55v shock hazard?
My words were 'less lethal' not 'non-lethal'. Just as 230v is less lethal than 400v. Both are dangerous, but one is less lethal than the other. Please don't put words into my mouth, I stated a simple fact. . If 110v were not less lethal than 230v, they would operate 230v CTE on building sites.
You appear to have been offended by the fact I pointed out that your comment was not quite accurate. Please don't be, I did not intend to offend you, just point out that reduced voltage is used for a reason.
. If 110v were not less lethal than 230v, they would operate 230v CTE on building sites..
You appear to have been offended by the fact I pointed out that your comment was not quite accurate. Please don't be, I did not intend to offend you, just point out that reduced voltage is used for a reason.
Well I never intended to offend you, and if I did, I'm sorry, and if you promise not to be offended by me putting words in your mouth, I'll promise not to be offended by you misreading my (quite) accurate statement that 110v is hardly less lethal than 230v....
Anyway - none of this is helping that poor chap who only wanted advice on wiring up some outside lights, which none of us are qualified to give, as we don't know what the rules are over there.
But I do know that if I emigrated, I'd protect my circuits with GFCIs just as I do here - not sure if in the USA you can now get consumer units (breaker panels?) with a master GFCI like wot we have, but you can get RCBOs
Anyway - none of this is helping that poor chap who only wanted advice on wiring up some outside lights, which none of us are qualified to give, as we don't know what the rules are over there.
But I do know that if I emigrated, I'd protect my circuits with GFCIs just as I do here - not sure if in the USA you can now get consumer units (breaker panels?) with a master GFCI like wot we have, but you can get RCBOs
breezer said:
Maybe until that happens we should point people at http://www.epanorama.net/links/wire_mains.html#usacanada
It has lots of basic stuff, FAQs, and, near the end, links to various American fora where people can ask questions and get answers.
(And wrong-ends of sticks, arguments, rambling diversions etc, just like here!
)
B
breezer
didn't i say that? and as most Americans do they post and go away never to be heard of again, which is a great shame really, we need an American electrician to join these forums
but i have to admit it is true
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ban-all-sheds, i tried to do something similar to pointing Americans at a U.S. based website but i was politely told off for doing it
but i have to admit it is true
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ban-all-sheds, i tried to do something similar to pointing Americans at a U.S. based website but i was politely told off for doing it
B
breezer
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I believe what you're talking about is perfectly fine, parrro2. However, be aware that there are two ways to hook up the GFCI, one will kill the lights when it trips, the other will not.
Ban All Sheds, we usually only use GFCI protection in the US where it's required. GFCIs have a bad habit of nuisance tripping (especially when motors are connected to them) and it's a pain to reset all the clocks.
Breezer, #12 wire (12AWG, American wire Gauge) is roughly the same as your 4mm and is rated at 25Amps. Most residential wiring is done with 12 or 14 Gauge wire in the US, since our breakers are generally rated at 15 or 20A.
I'm going to have to agree, by the way, that 110 is less dangerous (lethal is an absolute, it doesn't come in degrees!) than 220, although it is still lethal in bad conditions. The difference is it's easier to create a bad condition with higher voltage.
Also Ban All Sheds, while you can get individual circuit breakers that are GFCI protected, the main breaker at the circuit breaker panel infeed, to the best of my knowledge, is not available in GFCI style.
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I had a correction listed above to what I wrote, but it turns out I was right in the first place, it's fine to hook up lighting fixtures off the same circuit as an outlet.
Ban All Sheds, we usually only use GFCI protection in the US where it's required. GFCIs have a bad habit of nuisance tripping (especially when motors are connected to them) and it's a pain to reset all the clocks.
Breezer, #12 wire (12AWG, American wire Gauge) is roughly the same as your 4mm and is rated at 25Amps. Most residential wiring is done with 12 or 14 Gauge wire in the US, since our breakers are generally rated at 15 or 20A.
I'm going to have to agree, by the way, that 110 is less dangerous (lethal is an absolute, it doesn't come in degrees!) than 220, although it is still lethal in bad conditions. The difference is it's easier to create a bad condition with higher voltage.
Also Ban All Sheds, while you can get individual circuit breakers that are GFCI protected, the main breaker at the circuit breaker panel infeed, to the best of my knowledge, is not available in GFCI style.
-----
I had a correction listed above to what I wrote, but it turns out I was right in the first place, it's fine to hook up lighting fixtures off the same circuit as an outlet.
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